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LeBron’s Incredible 1st Half

Posted by Neil Paine on January 19, 2009

A few months ago, we compared Kobe Bryant to the inimitable Michael Jordan, and we found that while Kobe is a phenomenal talent, his production simply doesn't compare to that of His Airness... Which basically came as a surprise to nobody but the most ardent of Kobe supporters.

Still, it's also important to note that even though it's tempting to put Bryant and Jordan side by side because of their similar aesthetic qualities (on and off the court), there are a number of fundamental differences in their respective games. Jordan, for instance, was a deadly midrange jump-shooter (particularly in his later years), but a rather pedestrian long-range threat -- aside from the seasons with the shortened 3-point arc, Jordan's career 3FG% was 28.8% (by contrast, Kobe is a career 34% shooter from 23'9"). The flip-side of that is that young Jordan settled for fewer long jumpers than Kobe, instead attacking the basket with ruthless ferocity.

Which brings us to the real topic of this post. We as a basketball culture have spent a lot of time searching for the "next Jordan," eventually settling on Bryant as "the closest we're going to get to Michael" among current players. Except we declared Kobe Jordanesque too soon -- little did we know there would be another guy out there who's an even better match for Jordan: LeBron James. For instance, like young Mike, James is less of an outside shooter and more inclined to attack the basket on powerful drives, and he relies on superior physical tools to create jaw-dropping chances around the rim. That's not the only similarity, though. After translation to this year's 107.9 league rating, here are LeBron and MJ's 1st 6 NBA seasons side by side...

Jordan---------------------------------------James---------------------------------------
Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg  Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----+----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----
1985 21 CHI 78 G   82 3144 117.8  29.5 106.7 2004 19 CLE 80 F   79 3122 103.9  28.0 109.5
1986 22 CHI 78 G   18  451 109.9  35.8 107.7 2005 20 CLE 80 F   80 3388 115.4  29.5 105.2
1987 23 CHI 78 G   82 3281 116.1  35.9 103.9 2006 21 CLE 80 F   79 3361 117.2  33.1 105.8
1988 24 CHI 78 G   82 3311 122.7  32.4 101.2 2007 22 CLE 80 F   78 3190 113.1  30.5 101.7
1989 25 CHI 78 G   81 3255 122.7  31.9 103.2 2008 23 CLE 80 F   75 3027 116.7  33.6 103.9
1990 26 CHI 78 G   82 3197 122.8  32.4 105.2 2009 24 CLE 80 F   38 1408 120.7  34.0  96.1
----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----+----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----

Before this season, LBJ was no more fitting an heir to Jordan's throne than Kobe (though it's worth noting that his age-23 performance wasn't too dissimilar to MJ's at the same age). This season, however, LeBron has really upped the ante, putting himself on equal footing (at worst) with Jordan regardless of whether you compare the two in their 6th NBA season or at age 24. How good has LeBron's season been so far? Well, for starters, Kobe has never had a year like James is having so far in '09:

Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----
1997 18 LAL 78 G   71 1103 102.2  24.2 106.4
1998 19 LAL 78 G   79 2056 113.1  26.1 109.1
1999 20 LAL 78 G   50 1896 112.4  24.7 110.0
2000 21 LAL 78 G   66 2524 114.5  26.3 101.6
2001 22 LAL 78 G   68 2783 117.2  30.6 110.0
2002 23 LAL 78 G   80 3063 115.4  30.0 106.1
2003 24 LAL 78 G   82 3402 116.0  32.0 106.8
2004 25 LAL 78 G   65 2447 117.8  28.5 106.5
2005 26 LAL 78 G   66 2689 113.1  31.6 113.2
2006 27 LAL 78 G   80 3276 115.4  36.5 107.1
2007 28 LAL 78 G   77 3140 116.9  32.6 110.6
2008 29 LAL 78 G   82 3192 115.4  30.6 105.1
2009 30 LAL 78 G   39 1419 115.7  31.1 106.5
----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----

And what about the other greats of the game that King James is sometimes compared to?

Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Magic  1980 20 LAL 80 G   77 2795 115.8  22.4 103.7
Magic  1981 21 LAL 80 G   37 1371 117.2  25.7 100.5
Magic  1982 22 LAL 80 G   78 2991 119.4  22.4 103.2
Magic  1983 23 LAL 80 G   79 2907 122.2  21.9 105.7
Magic  1984 24 LAL 80 G   67 2567 118.3  22.8 104.8
Magic  1985 25 LAL 80 G   77 2781 123.4  23.7 106.9
Magic  1986 26 LAL 80 G   72 2578 122.8  24.7 106.5
Magic  1987 27 LAL 80 G   80 2904 123.3  28.8 105.5
Magic  1988 28 LAL 80 G   72 2637 118.1  26.0 106.7
Magic  1989 29 LAL 80 G   77 2886 125.0  27.1 105.0
Magic  1990 30 LAL 80 G   79 2937 125.8  27.3 105.8
Magic  1991 31 LAL 80 G   79 2933 123.5  26.2 104.5
Magic  1996 36 LAL 80 G   32  958 117.1  24.9 107.3
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----
Erving 1972 21 VIR 78 F   84 3513 113.8  25.5 103.5
Erving 1973 22 VIR 78 F   71 2993 110.7  28.6 102.3
Erving 1974 23 NYA 78 F   84 3398 115.9  27.2  98.7
Erving 1975 24 NYA 78 F   84 3402 117.1  28.0  98.4
Erving 1976 25 NYA 78 F   84 3244 120.0  29.1 101.0
Erving 1977 26 PHI 78 F   82 2940 115.8  23.9 102.9
Erving 1978 27 PHI 78 F   74 2429 116.0  24.4 105.8
Erving 1979 28 PHI 78 F   78 2802 107.0  27.1 103.4
Erving 1980 29 PHI 78 F   78 2812 114.0  29.3 101.1
Erving 1981 30 PHI 78 F   82 2874 115.5  27.7  98.9
Erving 1982 31 PHI 78 F   81 2789 118.4  27.3 102.7
Erving 1983 32 PHI 78 F   72 2421 118.2  24.7 102.4
Erving 1984 33 PHI 78 F   77 2683 112.4  26.4 102.6
Erving 1985 34 PHI 78 F   78 2535 111.1  24.9 106.2
Erving 1986 35 PHI 78 F   74 2474 108.7  23.2 107.6
Erving 1987 36 PHI 78 F   60 1918 105.4  23.6 108.5
------+----+--+---+--+--+---+----+-----+-----+-----
Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
'Nique 1983 23 ATL 79 F   82 2697 107.1  23.0 107.7
'Nique 1984 24 ATL 79 F   81 2961 106.6  26.0 106.4
'Nique 1985 25 ATL 79 F   81 3023 106.7  30.4 107.0
'Nique 1986 26 ATL 79 F   78 3049 111.6  30.8 105.9
'Nique 1987 27 ATL 79 F   79 2969 114.9  30.3 106.0
'Nique 1988 28 ATL 79 F   78 2948 111.3  32.8 108.6
'Nique 1989 29 ATL 79 F   80 2997 114.4  27.6 108.5
'Nique 1990 30 ATL 79 F   80 2888 118.0  28.7 111.4
'Nique 1991 31 ATL 79 F   81 3078 116.3  27.1 108.8
'Nique 1992 32 ATL 79 F   42 1601 112.7  29.2 109.7
'Nique 1993 33 ATL 79 F   71 2647 118.5  29.9 112.0
'Nique 1994 34 ATL 79 F   49 1687 111.0  29.5 105.0
'Nique 1994 34 LAC 79 F   25  948 111.7  29.2 112.3
'Nique 1995 35 BOS 79 F   77 2423 106.3  25.4 112.1
'Nique 1997 37 SAS 79 F   63 1945 108.4  28.5 115.1
'Nique 1999 39 ORL 79 F   27  252  97.7  30.4 105.1
-------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Player  Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
-------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Barkley 1985 21 PHI 78 F   82 2347 113.7  20.4 104.6
Barkley 1986 22 PHI 78 F   80 2952 112.2  23.5 101.1
Barkley 1987 23 PHI 78 F   68 2740 118.1  24.9 103.5
Barkley 1988 24 PHI 78 F   80 3170 125.4  27.0 107.9
Barkley 1989 25 PHI 78 F   79 3088 127.2  25.4 108.6
Barkley 1990 26 PHI 78 F   79 3085 127.6  25.0 105.2
Barkley 1991 27 PHI 78 F   67 2498 122.7  29.4 106.1
Barkley 1992 28 PHI 78 F   75 2881 118.5  25.8 105.8
Barkley 1993 29 PHO 78 F   76 2859 120.2  26.9 102.5
Barkley 1994 30 PHO 78 F   65 2298 114.5  26.4 104.6
Barkley 1995 31 PHO 78 F   68 2382 118.2  27.1 105.0
Barkley 1996 32 PHO 78 F   71 2632 115.4  27.4 105.4
Barkley 1997 33 HOU 78 F   53 2009 118.6  24.4 101.1
Barkley 1998 34 HOU 78 F   68 2243 119.3  22.5 107.2
Barkley 1999 35 HOU 78 F   42 1526 121.5  23.8 105.6
Barkley 2000 36 HOU 78 F   20  620 114.3  23.2 108.3
-------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Bird   1980 23 BOS 81 F   82 2955 111.9  24.9 100.6
Bird   1981 24 BOS 81 F   82 3239 109.3  24.1 100.8
Bird   1982 25 BOS 81 F   77 2923 114.6  25.2 100.2
Bird   1983 26 BOS 81 F   79 2982 118.1  24.8 100.9
Bird   1984 27 BOS 81 F   79 3028 115.7  26.6 101.0
Bird   1985 28 BOS 81 F   80 3161 119.0  27.8 102.7
Bird   1986 29 BOS 81 F   82 3113 118.0  27.6  99.9
Bird   1987 30 BOS 81 F   74 3005 120.4  27.4 103.1
Bird   1988 31 BOS 81 F   76 2965 121.1  28.8 105.9
Bird   1989 32 BOS 81 F    6  189 109.8  25.4 107.4
Bird   1990 33 BOS 81 F   75 2944 110.4  27.0 104.8
Bird   1991 34 BOS 81 F   60 2277 108.5  23.7 103.2
Bird   1992 35 BOS 81 F   45 1662 111.6  24.7 104.0
-------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Player    Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
---------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Robertson 1961 22 CIN 77 G   71 3032 124.0  26.5 113.3
Robertson 1962 23 CIN 77 G   79 3503 123.8  26.5 109.7
Robertson 1963 24 CIN 77 G   80 3521 124.3  24.2 109.1
Robertson 1964 25 CIN 77 G   79 3559 126.4  27.3 107.3
Robertson 1965 26 CIN 77 G   75 3421 125.1  26.8 110.8
Robertson 1966 27 CIN 77 G   76 3493 122.7  26.1 110.6
Robertson 1967 28 CIN 77 G   79 3468 124.9  26.0 111.6
Robertson 1968 29 CIN 77 G   65 2765 124.4  26.0 114.1
Robertson 1969 30 CIN 77 G   79 3461 123.9  22.8 113.9
Robertson 1970 31 CIN 77 G   69 2865 120.5  22.7 110.0
Robertson 1971 32 MIL 77 G   81 3194 121.5  20.7 105.4
Robertson 1972 33 MIL 77 G   64 2390 117.2  20.6 104.2
Robertson 1973 34 MIL 77 G   73 2737 112.8  19.9 103.5
Robertson 1974 35 MIL 77 G   70 2477 112.4  18.0 107.7
---------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Baylor 1959 24 MNL 77 F   70 2855 116.0  25.9 106.1
Baylor 1960 25 MNL 77 F   70 2873 115.7  28.3 104.6
Baylor 1961 26 LAL 77 F   73 3133 117.7  30.6 101.6
Baylor 1962 27 LAL 77 F   48 2129 115.2  32.2 104.4
Baylor 1963 28 LAL 77 F   80 3370 118.7  30.7 105.6
Baylor 1964 29 LAL 77 F   78 3164 113.6  27.0 109.0
Baylor 1965 30 LAL 77 F   74 3056 110.4  28.6 108.8
Baylor 1966 31 LAL 77 F   65 1975 107.9  23.5 108.0
Baylor 1967 32 LAL 77 F   70 2706 112.7  25.9 107.6
Baylor 1968 33 LAL 77 F   77 3029 115.6  26.2 107.0
Baylor 1969 34 LAL 77 F   76 3064 114.4  25.8 106.9
Baylor 1970 35 LAL 77 F   54 2213 116.1  23.2 105.5
Baylor 1971 36 LAL 77 F    2   57  99.5  15.4 109.0
Baylor 1972 37 LAL 77 F    9  239 108.2  18.5 102.9
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----

Keep in mind that the old-timers' stats (pre-1974) are estimated, because the NBA didn't track a lot of the data required for calculation back then. Nonetheless, sit back and compare LeBron's 2008-09 season (so far) to the best years of these legends (Hall of Famers, all) -- not just through 6 seasons or age 24, but their very best years... I know it sounds like hyperbole, but who can match the season King James is having right now? Magic, Larry, Charles, Elgin, and Oscar have the efficiency, but they didn't have to take on as much offensive responsibility, and they can't match LBJ's defense so far in '09. Mike, Dr. J, Dominique, and Kobe have the usage, but none except MJ can touch LBJ's efficiency, and none had a defensive rating as low as LeBron's. If LeBron keeps up this performance, then John Hollinger is right, nobody in the modern era has been better. In fact, I'd go so far as to say only one player in NBA history can touch his performance:

Player Year Ag Tm  Ht Pos G  Min  ORtg  %Poss DRtg
------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----
Wilt   1960 23 PHW 85 C   72 3338 117.4  28.8  97.7
Wilt   1961 24 PHW 85 C   79 3773 120.9  27.1 100.8
Wilt   1962 25 PHW 85 C   80 3882 123.4  33.0 102.6
Wilt   1963 26 SFW 85 C   80 3806 123.3  32.0 104.0
Wilt   1964 27 SFW 85 C   80 3689 120.8  30.4  95.5
Wilt   1965 28 SFW 85 C   38 1743 111.3  32.1 101.1
Wilt   1965 28 PHI 85 C   35 1558 122.9  25.3 102.8
Wilt   1966 29 PHI 85 C   79 3737 122.6  25.9  98.1
Wilt   1967 30 PHI 85 C   81 3682 131.6  19.9  99.5
Wilt   1968 31 PHI 85 C   82 3836 119.9  21.5  97.3
Wilt   1969 32 LAL 85 C   81 3669 120.2  19.4 100.9
Wilt   1970 33 LAL 85 C   12  505 114.7  25.9 101.2
Wilt   1971 34 LAL 85 C   82 3630 118.2  19.0 100.9
Wilt   1972 35 LAL 85 C   82 3469 124.9  14.4  96.5
Wilt   1973 36 LAL 85 C   82 3542 133.3  12.3  96.7
-------+----+--+---+--+---+--+----+-----+-----+-----

So let's be thankful we have a chance to see such an amazing athlete in action. Nike got it right this time: we truly are all witnesses.

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314 Responses to “LeBron’s Incredible 1st Half”

  1. Tsunami Says:

    thank the heavens! an article finally showing why LeBron is the best in the league that DOESN'T USE PER! Because PER is so freaking taboo among Kobe worshipers. So glad you used these metrics instead.

  2. Neil Paine Says:

    I respect John Hollinger and I'm a big fan of his writing, but I don't really use PER at all. A linear weights formula is not an especially valid way of quantifying basketball performance, IMO. These metrics have their flaws, especially on defense, but they more accurately reflect the game by acknowledging that there isn't necessarily a linear relationship between box score stats and wins.

  3. Larry Says:

    Wilt played in a weak era. In one finals alone he averaged 12 ppg and got shut down. Lebron had one of the worst finals ever.
    Jordan never averaged less than 27 ppg in any playoff series either.

  4. Drew Says:

    Lebron also led a joke of a team to the Finals single handedly Larry. People refuse to acknowledge Lebron's greatness for some reason. Nice article.

  5. kobe Says:

    Kobe Bryant is the best player in the NBA period. The day Lebron wins three rings is the day he can be put in the same class as Kobe Bryant. And all of you will say that Kobe won because of Shaq. Well Shaq wouldnt have been there if it werent for Kobe either. And Kobe is is in his thirteenth season and he is still playing at an incredibly high level.

  6. Travis Says:

    Tim Duncan is the best player in the NBA, period. The day Kobe Bryant leads his team to four titles is the day he can be put in the same class as Tim Duncan. And Duncan is in his twelfth season and he is still playing at an incredibly high level.

    That argument doesn't work for Kobe.

  7. The Commish Says:

    Nice point Travis.... Kobe, you just got OWNED!!!!!

    Nice article.

  8. Ray Says:

    Who ever reads this or wrote this is retarded, the best statistical season ever is Lebrick, are you just plain stupied or are you legally retarded? Little boys, grow up a ton of events happened while your dad was busy putting your brothers and sister in a tube sock daily. Look up a Guy they called the Big O, avg a triple double for an entire season, yeah your an idiot

  9. Neil Paine Says:

    Ha, you gotta love the internet.. (Motto: "Basic reading comprehension skills not required!")

  10. DAKOGOTEN"£ Says:

    Robert Horry is the best player in the NBA period. The day kobe wins seven rings is the day he can be put in the same class as Robert Horry. And all of you will say that Robe won because of others but the others wouldnt have been there if it werent for Robe either. And Robe is is in his 100th season and he is still playing at an incredibly low level.(like for all of his career!)

    P.S. THIS IS DEDICATED TO THE KOBE FAN! U CANT JUDGED A PLAYER'S GREATEST WITH THE NUMBER OF HIS RINGS! KOBE'S ONE HELL OF A PLAYER, BUT U CANT SAY LEBRON ISNT... BY THE WAY LBJ HAS SEVEN YEARS LESS THAN KOBE!

  11. MailMan Says:

    Karl Malone must be the worst player in NBA since he never won a championship ring. Lebron just needs to team up with Howard and i think we'd get about 6-7 championships in a row.

  12. GAWDtv Says:

    Lebron Rules, Kobe rides coat tails...He isn't even the MVP of his team, that be Pau...Oscar may have avg. a tripDub but LBJ is close to that with ALOT more PTS so his eff. is higher...I love Kobe's game but come on man, have you seen LBJ play??? He is on another level, out of this world. Starting a team today I would chose to build around Lebron over Kobe. I take CP3 over Kobe.

  13. Heezy Says:

    no doubt Lebron "Da King" James is gonna b better kobe when its all said and done

  14. coby Says:

    i dont think you can use the argument that kobe has won more titles than lebron for determining who is the better player. Kobe won those titles with shaq dominating the paint. The day LBJ gets to team up with a player that dominant he will win championships as well.

  15. Lebron Says:

    hey its funny huh saying kobe didnt win with shaq there but guess what has kobe won after shaq left NO but look at shaq he has won a title and dont say its because of wade no shaq has done his part just like with kobe kobe is good but lebron is the best and will be for years to come always the youngest to do this and that kobe dont have those priviledges lebron is a record setter a PHENOMenal player and a leader and at 24 in only his 6th season there is no reason why he is contradictingly being compared to kobe because he is the best at what he does

  16. newb Says:

    ^^^buddy Oscar averaged 30 points per game that season, and is a 25.7 career. I believe that Lebron has the chance to be a great player, but until he develops a reliable mid range game, he simple wont be. Yeah he can just go to the basket all the time since he is heavier and faster than just about anyone at the 3, but his athleticism will diminish with time and he wont be able to rely on it so much. You think Jordan would had became what he is now had he just rely on his athleticism alone...No chance. Jordan won 6 rings, could and some argue should had won mvp every single one of those years. Also, lets see Lebron or Kobe average 20+ points per game at age 40. No argument that both Lebron and Kobe are great players, but please do not disrespect the likes of Jordan, Oscar, Bird, Magic... And by the way, Lebron embarrassed himself the year he got to the finals, and some might say his team was not very good, but look at some of the talent Jordan had during the early 90 and the teams they had to beat... NO CONTEST PERIOD

  17. pirathapan Says:

    KING JAMES... HE IS THE NBA... kobe bryant sucks, i love lebron jamess!!! L-TRAIN FOR MVP!!

  18. Muzammil Usman UTSC Says:

    My Name is Muzammil Usman. I like it the Lebron because i buy one t-shirt that say king james. I put my name beside the King it make me happy. I think lebron is the best stick handler in the national hockey league. He is one of my favourite player in my country Abu-Dabi. My wife Poooja always like it the kobe they call him the dark snake.

  19. Ho Says:

    I like your argument Newb. I like Kobe, I think he's an extremely talented player and probably one of the best in the clutch. If I can compare anyone to Jordan in this era Id have to say Kobe. Lebron may be a good player, but his greatest skills are his ability to pass and finish at the rim. He's gifted because he unbelievably quick for his size and he's athletic. I honestly dont like the guy, but I cant deny that he's good... Just not Jordan good.

  20. Ho Says:

    By the way, people oughta stop hangin on Lebrons nuts. Just puttin that out there.

  21. Kobe Says:

    To the guy posing as Lebron... all those youngest ever records that were broken belonged to Kobe. Kobe broke those youngest ever records after being 6th man for the first three seasons of his career... don't sleep on that. Lebron is an incredible physical specimen! No question at all... but Lebron will have to take the torch of best player from Kobe... hopefully in the NBA finals just like Jordan did from Magic. I don't know why the MVP has become the award that dictates the best player. Sportswriters who NEVER set foot on the court get to vote so how does that make sense? When Steve Nash won the MVP, everyone was still saying that Kobe was the best player. When Karl Malone and Charles Barkley won, Jordan was CLEARLY the best player in the league. Until the MVP is voted by the players who have to defend these guys... it will never truly represent who the best player in the NBA is. All these stats are meaningless to me... they are just numbers that tell part of the story. For example.. how many of Lebron's points are scored when he is being guarded by a smaller and weaker player? Where are those numbers? If Lebron could dunk over Shaquille O'Neal in his prime (the 2000 season), THEN we'll know what's up. I wanna see Lebron dominate in the post before I start calling him the best.

  22. Kobe is overrated Says:

    Lebron took the team with the number one draft pick. To now one of the best if not the best team in the NBA in 6 seasons and they have not upgraded much from the original team. Z is getting older and isn't as good as he was, they now have an ok point guard and decent roll players, but that is it. name one other player who has done this much with so little. I recall when Kobe didn't have the best team he couldn't make it out of the first round let alone to the finals.

  23. Kobe is overrated Says:

    Hey Kobe you said that players should vote, here is what a Spanish player said after being asked who the best player on team U.S.A was. he said Lebron is head and shoulders above everyone on that team, and if you didn't know Kobe was on that team.

  24. Lebron Says:

    not all my friend i can gaurantee you that and also the fact thta lebron has won some that kobe has yet to see in his entire career and aqlso yeah lebron can dorminate the paint he is already doing it i wanna see you step infront of lebron when he is coming right at you like they say no one would even think of doing LEBRON does not have to have a jumper like kobe or even a the clutch to be the best as seen h has beaten kobe more times than kobe has him and i aint coountingthat last much until cavs play at home they been poor on the road this year so that isnt something to look forward to just like the year lebron got to the finals against spurs and choked because the supporting cast could not support after beaten every other team in the east is the same way kobe went to the finals and choked last years against celtics when the supporting cast could not support after beaten every team in the west now they have that supporting cast and kobe took the home game as should be expected now lets see lebron and the cavs do theirs at home and show that he is who he is KING JAMES

  25. newb Says:

    Big Z is still the second best center in the eastern conference, no question. Just his size on the post and his ability to go outside and make the mid range jumper make him a cause of concern for opposing teams. Also Mo Williams is not just an "OK point guard", he is a very good point guard, easily top 5 in the eastern conference. Look, the cavs have done a great job of putting "pieces" around Lebron, as to keep him happy in Cleveland instead of jumping ship, and I believe they have a better than good chance of making it out of the slugfest that's gonna be the eastern conference playoffs. But, will he be able to handle the pressure, will he choke again in the finals? And by the way, I can name a player that has done more with less, his name is Michael Jordan, not just with less, but against better competition.

  26. Lebron Says:

    i must in a way disagree and agree with you on that michael jordan actually had a great supporting castbetter than what lebron had but he did have to go against better teams and thats when his team choked leaving him to step up but still able to get him a ring and i dont mean that like he needed them that much just saying because it is a team sport but jordan is jordan and i really dont know if i can compare anyone in the league to him as yet they are similarties no doubt but not a jordan

  27. yupppppp Says:

    everyone listen upp stop giving these statistics to prove who is a better player....come on and Lebron is good....no he is great but he is not better then Kobe yet. I am huge Kobe fan but its true that its only a matter of time tbefore Lebron is better then kobe, but not yet.....

  28. yupppppp Says:

    and to lebron ur an idiot by saying Lebron doesn't need to be clutch to be the best.........to be the best u better be clutch which Lebron is not....u can never give him the ball in the final seconds and expect him to make a jumpshot for the game winner he doesn't have tat yett

  29. Lebron Says:

    tell me how many games have lebron played this season where he needs to be clutch and i will be honest there have been a few saying like two or three but besides that its been a complete rainstorm and he is right at the top for mvp so tell me while kobe struggle at the end of it to get his team back ontop lebron is busy maintaining a c omfurtable lead until the last minute

  30. Lebron Says:

    and most of the time you claim a jumpshot is a game winner lebron goes right in and slams down on whoever stands in his way i think thats clutch enough for me

  31. newb Says:

    The point is that, whoever was it that wrote this article is a f****ing imbecile, plain and simple. How can you put up some "numbers" and say stuff like this "In fact, I’d go so far as to say only one player in NBA history can touch his performance is Wilt Chamberlain". So, according to this article LeBron's performance is better than the likes of: Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan, Bird, Magic, Dr.J ... That has to be about the stupidest thing anyone can say, how his "performance" be better than averaging, for a full season, a freaking triple-double with 30 points per game???... Just dumb and down right disrespectful.

  32. Kobe is overrated Says:

    My bad I'll give you MJ because I agree, but I was referring to players that are around now. and the only reason Z is the second best center in the east is because the east only has one good center and Mo should be a top Five PG in the east because most of the good ones are in the west.

  33. Therealdeal Says:

    Yo move on kobe lovers theres a new sherriff in town and his name is KING JAMES... Lebron is on a different basketball planet doing these @24 not even Jordan set these record thats if all is said and Lebron breaks it@24 kobe is a great player but Lebron is not from these planet hes on a different level now hes playing monster defence might even get defensive player of the year is not even a race no more dont be mad and hate on Lebron cuz everybody is notice we have greatness in our eyes and we still stuck on the best player has to be a shooting guard bull crap that Jordan still have everybody on....

    If u Laker fans think kobes jump shots so great why in the freaking word he hasent never shot over 47% from the field ever....LMao u guys are dumb move on and quit hating theres always #2 player in the league but his not #1 no more that now belongs to the KING OF AKRON...

  34. Lebron Says:

    i have to agree steve nash tony parker chris paul jason kidd (well not really anymore) derek fisher wow the list goes on lol chauncey billups lol

  35. Lebron Sucks Ass Says:

    Lebron hasn't accomplished ANYTHING!! He could still turn out to be like Malone, great player who just can't ever get a championship... there's lots of great players like that... Look at Dallas or Phoenix... teams far superior than Cleavland, with lots of talent, and yet they suck come playoff time... Cleavland is exactly the same as those teams at the moment.

  36. newb Says:

    Well while there is some truth on that, Lebron has taken over and won games, just ask Flip Saunders and the Pistons.

  37. Therealdeal Says:

    lol@the only people still thinks kobe is still the best is Mark Jackson ...And Los Angeles .Lmao on Espn poll they ask the nation who u rather watch Lebron old kobe 47 states Lebron 5 states kobe..Am sorry guys kobe was on top for a share of years..But not today hes not the best ..Hey 2 years ago hands down he was the best when Lebron was inmatured but not now so lets all get over it please....

  38. Lebron Sucks Ass Says:

    Yeah, but for Lebron it's still a rarity... aside from all numerical stats, Jordan was freakishly consistent... every game. Lebron still turns it on and off too much, sometimes he's phenomenal, but most times he's just average.

  39. Lebron Says:

    that must be the biggest bull ive heard did you see the east finals between cavs and detroit who won that series huh tell me lol ha lebron isnt able to atke over a game get your facts right boy and if lebron is that consistent and that predictive why cant anyone stop him why is he still puttin up huge numbers why is he still at the top for mvp why is he and his team buying for best team in the east and the entire league huh answer those questions lebron is damn good and you guys cant face the fact that at 24 lebron is being called the best and being compared to kobe who is almost past his prime lebron is still getting better kobe is gonna lose it in the next two years theres no contest whose the best right now

  40. Therealdeal Says:

    Dude u guys are dumb the cavs are the most over achieve team in the playoffs for the past years....Kobe got past the first round for the first time since shaq left...Come be realistic dont talk nonsence....

  41. Kobe is overrated Says:

    If I need one shot I take Kobe if it's late in a game I take Lebron. they did "CLUTCH" stats and in the 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points. Lebron avg 56 pts per 48 min to Kobe's 51.8 lebron's team is +31 pts per 48 to Kobes +11 Lebrons FG% is .475 to Kobes .448 Lebron FT% 70% Kobe 84% Lebron 8.2 ast to 3.6 t/o kobe 6 ast to 4.2 t/o and I could go on so in a sense Lebron is more clutch because he makes sure he doesn't have to take that one final shot. but I will say If I needed one shot I would take Kobe, but you can't knock Lebron if he makes it so he doesn't have to take that shot.

  42. Lebron Sucks Ass Says:

    The only reason Cavs are winning lots is because the east is weak. Boston and a young Orlando team. That's it. The rest is total crap!! Compare that with the West!! You've got San Antonio, Lakers, Dallas, Phoenix, Houston... Lakers actually have decent opponents, and they're winning just as many games. Cavs will reach the finals again, and lose 4-1 to whoever comes out of the west. You'll see. Buncha morons. Kobe will be tops for years still... Lebron will go the route of Vince Carter... some flash early on, and then a pathetic, winningless career later on...

  43. Lebron Says:

    exactly what i told yyyyuuuuuupppp whatever his name is lebron does not put himself in a situation where he has to take the final shot only to keep a lead til the buzzer and thats enough for me on any night

  44. Wayne Says:

    Lebron, ever hear of punctuation? I think you have the record for the longest run-on sentence I have ever seen.

    Now, to the argument. The bottom line is that statistcally Lebron is the best of his era so far, but honestly ask yourself who you would rather have taking the last shot to win a game. Nobody in thier right mind would pick LeBron over Kobe, MJ, Bird, or many other greats. You can't be the best if you don't have that clutch ability. Right now it still has to be Kobe who I pick to win. Maybe not to build for the future, but if I wanted to pick a championship team to win it all right now, Kobe would be the center of it.

    Keep in mind I really don't like either of them very much, so this is an objective opinion.

  45. Lebron Says:

    yo look at your facts what is the cavs record vs the western conference lol they have only lost to lakers and hornets thats it and you want to talk about east is weak lebron and cavs only threat is the east right now

  46. Therealdeal Says:

    Hey morrons the Game dosent start with 2 seconds in the 4qtr it starts with 12 minutes in the 1qtr ..lmao yall hilarious ..Kepp it coming....

  47. newb Says:

    Like I said before, no argument, Lebron is a special kind of player. Just not ready jet to name him the best, much less best of all time like this article and his fans want to hype him up to be. For Lebron to be the best player TODAY, he would have to do a couple of things:

    first, improve his mid-range game

    second, get the hardware, championships, mvps...

    third, dont just do it for a seasson, prove that you can do it down the road, will he be this good at 30+, maybe maybe not, we will see how good he is when he has to face a younger/faster/stronger player. like Kobe has when he face Lebron. Also, hopefully it doesn't happen, lets say he blows out his knees, and has surgery, could he come back like Kobe did?

    So, until then, he will just be a great player, but not the best. period

  48. Eric Powell Says:

    To those that say lebron isnt clutch you are morons. Did you watch game 5 against the pistons in 2008??? where lebron scored the last 29 of 30 points against one of the best defences in the league? Kobe has never ever had a game like that. And lebron is doing this all with a crap team, he had NOBODY to help on offense until this year. No other player in the league makes his teammates better - kobe just gets his teammate open looks b/c of the attention he draws while lebron makes them actually better and they love playing with him. He came to the cavs and turned them into a contender, its not like the cavs have a front office like the celtics/knicks/lakers. Also he lakers were recipients of the most lopsided trade ive ever seen on paper. I live in los angeles and have watched virtually every cavs and lakers game for years. The things that Lebron James is doing this year is unparalled, almost every night he does something you've never done before. Lebron dominates the fast break at 270 pound and he's one of the fastest guys from end to end. Kobe is good but lebron is ridiculously good, oh and he just turned 24 less than a month ago.

  49. Lebron Says:

    dont worry about my sentences thats left for a classroom i dont have time being all english where it doesnt matter

  50. Kobe is overrated Says:

    Wayne you are a fool if you would pick Kobe over Lebron even for just this year Kobe might not even be the best 2 guard anymore.

  51. AfgLeBronJames Says:

    LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and Dwight Howard are the best NBA players on Earth.

  52. AfgLeBronJames Says:

    I'll f*CK any LeBron James haterrrr.

  53. Therealdeal Says:

    U think kobe would of took That team that started:
    PG=caint make a shot or run an offence eric snow
    PF=inconsistent Drew gooden
    C=Big z
    SG=not played healthy not one game avg 11 points hugues
    No Bench

    U think Kobe could of beat a great basketball team ..Great defence like the pistons to go to the finals ur crazy .....Kobe just started playing Team basketball cuz he dont have a choice...

  54. Therealdeal Says:

    Hell no Kobe would of never beat the pistons with that Team...

  55. Lebron Sucks Ass Says:

    why argue kobe over lebron? Boston will toss Lebron from the playoffs for the next 5 years. One fat Lebron isn't gonna win anything in the near future... for him to win, he needs to sit his ass down, and the Cavs need to sign Kobe!! he he

  56. Lebron Says:

    Lebron is the greatest thing to come straight oout of high school

  57. Wayne Says:

    Give me a 2 gaurd better than Kobe this year...

  58. Lebron Says:

    and if the cavs sign kobe and sit lebron they will do exactly what theyre doing now with lebron winning games

  59. Kobe is overrated Says:

    D Wade

  60. Eric Powell Says:

    Please the cavs took the celtics to 7 games last year...so did the hawks too lol

  61. Eric Powell Says:

    d wade is playing better than kobe this year

  62. Lebron Says:

    its not about position and if so give me a 3 thats been better han lebron or a 4 he cannot match up 2

  63. Wayne Says:

    D wade has a crap team. If Kobe didn't have so many scoring options he'd have those numbers too. Look at the teams records.

  64. Lebron Says:

    and the only way boston beat those teams was because of home court even wizards owned boston during the regular season and if billups wasnt injured they would win or bring them to seven games as well

  65. Kobe is overrated Says:

    So I guess Kobe wasn't that good a couple years ago when his teams record wasn't near what it is now.

  66. Therealdeal Says:

    jajaja Lakers got tossed blew a 20 point lead against the celtics with the so call best closer in the game not even made it to 7 got blew out@boston for the ring...games and cavs went to 7 games with celtics and the cavs need kobe ur nuts i wont have that ball hugger attetion junkie in my team over Lebron in these Life time or the next.lmao jajajaj kobe lovers get over it ur guy is not the best no more.jajajajajajjajajaajajaajajaajajajajajajajajajaja

  67. Lebron Says:

    yea thats true if kobe didnt have the options they would be 5th or under in the west

  68. newb Says:

    Like I said before, no argument, Lebron is a special kind of player. Just not ready yet to name him the best, much less best of all time like this article and his fans want to hype him up to be. For Lebron to be the best player TODAY, he would have to do a couple of things:

    first, improve his mid-range game

    second, get the hardware, championships, mvps…

    third, dont just do it for a seasson, prove that you can do it down the road, will he be this good at 30+, maybe maybe not, we will see how good he is when he has to face a younger/faster/stronger player. like Kobe has when he face Lebron. Also, hopefully it doesn’t happen, lets say he blows out his knees, and has surgery, could he come back like Kobe did?

    So, until then, he will just be a great player, but not the best. period

  69. Wayne Says:

    THe only reason Kobe isn't averaging more that D-Wade is because he has other great scorers. He'd average 30-35ppg no problem without his supporting cast.

  70. Therealdeal Says:

    I hope the Laker fans are not to confident cuz the lakers wont @home with out no Center and there @ guard starters Take Bynum and fisher out that line up and cavs would of beat there lights out in the road....

  71. Wayne Says:

    I have no idea what you just said Therealdeal...learn how to write.

  72. Therealdeal Says:

    Damn if Lebron had all them scorers lakers got and bynum and gasol he will avg like 14 asssists a game ....For real

  73. lakernation Says:

    I love kobe but i have to agree..Lebron is from anothewr basketball planet..he is the best today kobe was a year or 2 ago.....

  74. Lebron Says:

    what he said wayne is that lebron went into los angeles without Big Z and delonte west so if maybe bynum and ariza was not there is may have been leveled out but lets wait til they at home and lakers visit then we are gonna see what kobe is made of

  75. Therealdeal Says:

    Atleast 1 kobe lover agreeds.

  76. BronBron Says:

    I think that it is too early to compare Lebron to MJ but I think that it is good to remember that when MJ was 24 years old he had played only 3 seasons. He didn't have any rings. Not until Scottie Pippen, I think it is weird how people always forget him. So in my opinion LJ has few years to catch Jordan. Also remember Jordan had Scottie, Kobe had Shaq, Magic had the showtime. Mo and Z are great players but can you compare them to legend like Scottie. Dont get me wrong I think Jordan is the greatest of alltime and Kobe is the best at the moment. But that doesn't mean that LeBron couldn't pass them when we're talking about greatest of alltime.

  77. Kobe is overrated Says:

    People like Wayne bug me. He is ignorant and stupid when it comes to basketball, Just because he wants to jump in bed with Kobe he won't admit anyone else is better.

  78. Lebron Says:

    yea and will add that i never loved kobe until he started playing real team ball now he the third best after wade on my list he is a good player and l;ast year i gave him best player hands down but this year i cant i almost did when they beat lakers but cavs arent good on the road i wanna see kobe do that in cleveland gainst the best home team in the league

  79. Eric Powell Says:

    MJ's team were stacked too when he won his rings, at one point he had 3 players on his team that made 1st team all defensive.

    I agree with laker nation, lebron is from a different world lol

  80. Therealdeal Says:

    Lebron still had more points then him even do he dint get no Foul calls going in the paint when is was a close game....

  81. Eric Powell Says:

    yea the officiating sucked that game imo, the cavs really needed Z to bring one of their bigs out of the paint and missing delonte hurt, cavs arent nearly as deep as the lakers

  82. Therealdeal Says:

    U guys remember when Jordan became the best...He was from another generation of athletes faster,stronger he added basketball skills to that became the greatest ..Were seeing that with Lebron now hes faster ,stronger then players now ...Hes unique just like MJ was in his time...

  83. Eric Powell Says:

    ^^ Yup ^^

  84. Therealdeal Says:

    I remember looking@magic watching jordan blow by him like hes faster then our guys....

  85. Wayne Says:

    I garauntee LBJ isn't winning 6 rings...MJ Isn't going to be surpassed in greatness anytime soon.

  86. Eric Powell Says:

    i remember jordan just obliterating the cavs back in the day lol

  87. Wayne Says:

    I love how I'm being called "ignorant and stupid" by someone who has reverted to petty insults on this message board...Ironic...

  88. Lebron Says:

    thats a fact lebron may not win 6 rings but he will win enough to be known he was close

  89. Therealdeal Says:

    Anything is possible ..Hey Wayne for every Joe montana theres a Tom brady or a payton manning..

    For every Bonds and ruth theres a manny Ramirez and alex Rodriguez

    For every nicholas theres a Tiger woods

    For ever dale ernhart theres a jimmy johnson

    Just like Lebrons commercial dont be like me be better then me...

  90. newb Says:

    Pippen was a great player to the 90 bulls, and a guy that averaged 22 points per game the season that MJ was playing baseball<<which was dumb by the way. But other than Pippen, they didnt have much help, never had a half decent post player, ever. Pretty bad point guards. And the one year that they put the most talent around MJ what did they do? They went 72-10, which will never be broken in my opinion. So dont tell me "poor Lebron has no help". Bull crap, just because MJ had Pippen that dont mean they had an overall better team, they were always poor at the two most important positions, point guard and center. What made the Bulls a 6 time NBA champion team was MICHAEL JORDAN, no question...

  91. Therealdeal Says:

    look jordan had a the best@every position pippen the best 2 men in the NBA @the time...Rodman the best defensive player.. steve kurt the best 3 point% shooter in the NBA that mark still stands Grant was a great player kukoc he had great guys on his team..

  92. Therealdeal Says:

    Every body know wat made the bulls was Jordan..Of course...Nobody is saying that but he had a better team then Lebron has now...i mean in that Era i believe players now are stronger and faster u caint compared to That era..

  93. newb Says:

    How many defensive of the year Did Rodman win if he was such a good defender?? He was the best rebounder, get it right. And just because Kerr was a great 3 point shootyer, doesnt make him a good point guard. And by the way, most of the guys you mentioned are from the year they had the 72-10 season, so what about the other 5 championships hu buddy?

  94. newb Says:

    Tell me one good center the Bulls ever had? Tell me the best 6 man they ever had?

  95. Wayne Says:

    Bill Wennington!!! Luc Longley!!!

  96. Eric Powell Says:

    The Bulls were pretty deep talent wise every year they won a championship imo. People forget how good pippen was.

  97. newb Says:

    Jordan had Pippen, thats it. The other players that were ok along the way were Grant, Kukoc, and Rodman. As for the rest, they never had consistency at the point, center, or bench. The only Bulls to go to the be named all-stars were MJ and Pippen, thats it.

  98. newb Says:

    Deep!?? sure, name their best bench player, outside of kukoc the 72-10 season? Look, they never were an stacked team. NEVER. Only one year they were pretty stacked, and they had the best record EVER.

  99. Eric Powell Says:

    Lebron hasnt ever played with any legitimate all stars. Z only got in b/c the east has no centers. Give lebron a guy like pippen who was the best perimeter defender in the league that could also score and you can put any number of random players with them and they would win some rings.

  100. Eric Powell Says:

    ok so im wrong jordan single handedly won 6 rings. lol.

  101. newb Says:

    Thats what great players do. They make with what they have. And if you give them talent, they deliver until now a record that baffles and is just ridiculous. You know how hard it is to only loose 10 games!!??? not even in a video game you can do that!!!!

  102. Wayne Says:

    LBJ Already has a better PG, Center, and bench than the Bulls ever had.

  103. newb Says:

    bingo!!!!

  104. newb Says:

    You give Lebron Pippen, and all you get is Lebron coming off the bench for Pippen lol. Ok not sure about that, but they did play the same position. At least the first couple of years he would had. And in no way would they win 6 championships, that's just ridiculous to say. you could put Lebron/Kobe in and all-star team and they might still not go 72-10, thats how ridiculous that record is.

  105. Eric Powell Says:

    and the bulls had a better SG and PF by far than the cavs have ever seen, Z isnt that great of a center, mo just came this year, and yes the cavs have varajao coming off the bench whose pretty good. So sasha/wally/gibson and 2 non-lottery pick rookies playing is considered deep...

  106. Eric Powell Says:

    the league is also much deeper in talent these days

  107. newb Says:

    What better PF did the Bulls have? Rodman? You forget Ben Wallace is a 4 time defensive player of the year buddy...

  108. Eric Powell Says:

    yea he's finally playing well again, and yes i would take 15 rebounds over the 6.9 wallace is avg

  109. newb Says:

    the league is deeper now? are you high? deeper than the 80's and 90's??? seriously, think about that one for a second please...

  110. newb Says:

    Again, you guys keep naming players from the best team the bulls ever had. Im talking about overall, the Bulls were never a stacked team. In the early 90's they didnt have, rodman, kukoc, kerr.

  111. Duane Says:

    I am rather sick of hearing how good Kobe is in the clutch. Look at all the statistics kept on end of game shots (be it last 2, 10, x seconds), Kobe takes so many, but he hits very, very few. One of the worst percentages in the list of those to have taken so many. Please look at the real numbers!

  112. Eric Powell Says:

    Um yea. the league keeps getting younger, It has more players in it that can take over a game. Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, Lebron, KG, Duncan, Shaq.... the list of studs keeps going, even Derrick Rose is already a stud...

  113. Eric Powell Says:

    Are you saying the cavs are stacked?

  114. Eric Powell Says:

    or are you just saying lebron has more help than mj did

  115. newb Says:

    My point dont use the "lebron has no help argument". Neither did MJ if you want to put it that way. Great players find a way to win and thats it. Jordan only had a pretty good all around team during the late 90's, when he was already 30+, and he needed the help. And still, that team only had 2 all-stars, and they were playing against far stronger competition. During those days there werent many easy games, now a days there are too many scrub teams. Jordan was playing against the likes of: Magic, Bird, Malone, prime Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, David Robinson, Barkley, Parish, Drexler... and the list goes on.

  116. newb Says:

    There absolutly no way you can tell me the NBA has better talent/is deeper than the NBA during 80's 90's. Just no way you can back that up. Plus back then the rules were different, now the rules benefit the offense, making it easier to score now a days.

  117. Eric Powell Says:

    i'd love to see how well bird would play against the athletes today. Yes Lebron finally got some help this past year and a half. he took one of the worst franchises in the league and turned it into one of the best in 5 years. He's only 24 and he has a lot of basketball left, he's also attained the "youngest to reach" in so many categories its ridiculous. But im not saying that the cavs will win 70 games or lebron will have 6 rings.

  118. Eric Powell Says:

    im just talking players from the past 10 years, not the past 20

  119. Baller Says:

    To Travis:

    Tim Duncan may have 4 rings with an incredible team with Parker and Ginobli to name a few, but he didnt win 3 in a row like Kobe...Ill repeat 3 NBA championships in 3 consecutive seasons.

  120. Mike Says:

    first, ppl need to stop bitching at each other, its not personal...wow
    secondly, i think ppl just need to think about one on one play as to who is better and as anyone coulda seen when Cleveland played the Lakers this year and last year, Kobe couldn't do ANYTHING when Lebron was guarding him...seriously...i think Kobe is the best scorer ever, next to MJ, and he was gettin shut down by Lebron. You don't believe check the tape. Also, as to who was more clutch, i recall that when they played each other last year, Kobe went 1 for 7 or something like that in the last 4 mins when LeBron was guarding him, and meanwhile LeBron went down and cashed the game winning shot in Kobe's eye. Then on the final possession, Kobe literally couldn't even get a shot off against LeBron...so in a game of one on one who would win? LeBron 9 outta 10.
    I honestly think Kobe knows more ways to score than Jordan and him and MJ are prolly one the same level in terms of scoring. But in terms of overall play (Assists,Defense,Rebounds,LEADERSHIP,making ppl around you better), i think the best players ever (MJ, Oscar Robertson, LeBron (in that order, at least for now)) let their Record/Highlight films/ Stats/Athleticism/Wins/MVPs/ and Ultimately championships speak for themselves. And LeBron undoubtedly tops Kobe in the first 5 categories..and the last two are simply a matter of time.

  121. newb Says:

    Bird is a Legend not because he was stronger or faster than his peers, don't use that as an example because is dumb. Larry Bird is one of the greatest competitors/champions to ever play the game of basketball, his talent came from his vision and his superior basketball IQ.

  122. Eric Powell Says:

    For sure Bird was good for those reasons, but against the bigger/stronger freak athletes of today he wouldnt be as effective imo.

  123. Mike Says:

    and To Baller:
    Kobe also wasnt the best player on his team in those three seasons (Shaq averaged more ppg all three years, let alone the Rebs, blocks and all the other stuff).Striahgt up, the lakers were STACKED..Shaq, Horry, Fisher, Fox...im not sayin they woulda done it w/o kobe...but they woulda had a better chance w/o him than he woulda had by himself.

  124. newb Says:

    The league has always have great athletes, back them and now. There is no evidence that the league has gotten bigger or faster. The rules have changed in order to make the game faster and for teams to score more points, because that's more appealing to the everyday fan that might not know much of basketball. Todays league has many players that are not super athletes and have successful careers. Tim Duncan is a prime example, Nowitski, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash... to name a few. So your argument is just no good

  125. Eric Powell Says:

    I happen to think that professional sports are generally improving, take track as an example, when a record gets broken who are you going to say is the better athlete? The guy with the old record or the new?

  126. Eric Powell Says:

    More people are playing basketball today than ever, so naturally its a bigger pool of athletes to pick from.

  127. Eric Powell Says:

    Ive also watched old celtics/lakers games recently and I wasnt nearly as impressed with play compared to games today.

  128. Baller Says:

    Mike,

    Your seriously comparing Fisher, Fox to Ginobili and Parker?
    Bottom line Ill say it again all you haters of Kobe/Great basketball players...3 Championships in a row! You cant take that away from him...just watch Game 5 of the 2000 Finals Shaq fouls out and who takes over in overtime at age 21 in the most pivotal championship game? Im sorry that is why Kobe is mentioned day in and day out at every sports channel the media doesnt huff and puff for no reason...maybe with Dwight Howard cuz hes big and can throw down hard or grab boards but has no skill whatsoever

  129. Baller Says:

    sorry game 4

  130. Mike Says:

    and Newb:
    come on man, you cant say MJ had less help than LeBron has had...MJ couldnt beat the pistons till he got Pippen..LeBron did it, twice, and almost against the Cs last year which he had no business doing...point is MJ needed Pippen, Robinson needed Duncan, Kobe needed Shaq, and now Lebron has Mo. Great players do indeed find a way to win games, but not championships (via KG last year via Duncan with Ginobilli and Parker via Wade and Shaq in 06)
    Also, to anyone who keeps bringin up the Finals of 07...for one NOONE gave the cavs a chance to reach the ECF LET ALONE BEAT THE PISTONS...plus no one could touch the spurs that year anyways...plus all the game were close (largest margin of defeat=11, with two games comin down to the final shot)..and also, lebron got literally quadruple teamed every time and still averaged 22ppg.

  131. newb Says:

    Back them you had players like Stockton, Magic, Bird. Just like now you have Duncan, Pierce, Nash. Not very athletic, but great players that know the game of basketball. Like I said before, the rules have change in order to make the game more appealing to the everyday fan that doesnt know so much about basketball. Im sorry, but if you cant appreciate the battles of the Larry "Legend" Celtics and the showtime Magic Lakers then you must not be much of a basketball fan.

  132. Eric Powell Says:

    Yea they literally triple and quadruple teamed him lol, just like iverson did back in the day lebron got to the finals virtually by himself.

  133. Lebron Says:

    winning three in a row yes and out of those three how many times did he win mvp of the playoffs

  134. Baller Says:

    The Spurs-Cavs Finals was so brutal how can you be at the NBA Finals only to be swept kinda defeats the purpose

  135. newb Says:

    You comparing that Detroit team to the "Bad Boys" Detriot team of the Late 80's early 90's? Please. Yes, Jordan needed Pippen, also another thing ppl forget is that same year MJ got Pippen he also was united with Phil Jackson, so you gotta attribute some of that to Phil not just Pippen. And yes, I am clearly saying that Lebron has an OVERALL better team than Jordan did during the early 90's, and also they had to win against much better teams.

  136. Eric Powell Says:

    i appreciate those games and remember them well, just like i appreciate college basketball, but now after watching all these high-flying young freak athletes of today its hard for me to say that they arent superior to athletes back in the 80's

  137. Baller Says:

    Lebron:

    ...So? How can you give Steve Nash two MVPs in a row when Shaq went to the Heat and handed them a Finals trophy....after seeing Steve Nash win 2 in row for a guy who kept choking in the playoffs...the MVP means nothing anymore

  138. Mike Says:

    Baller,
    what are you talking about man? i never compared those guys to the spurs. and dude, i never said kobe was bad or isnt a great player..he been at least the third or secondt best player in basketball since 99...and undoubtedly the best in 04,05 and 06. Hes a great player and will go down as one of the top 10 if not top 5 in history. but thats jsut the thing, thats how great LeBron is ALREADY, let alone when he is in his thirteenth season
    and lastly, why would you believe what they say on TV man, those guys are idiots, 90% of them have never touched a basketball and they change their opinions with the weather...why do you think they all hopped on the Dwade bandwagon in 06, then said he was a nobody in 07/08 and are now back on his bandwagon. dont believe those dudes man, make your own opinion from what you see, not what they tell you. If you think Kobe is the best player in the NBA because of his incredible talent level and you understand how hard all the crap he does is and respect that (and the only way you can really understand that is if you play, and i hope that you do)..then i respect your opinion...but if you think hes the best in the NBA cuz they tell you and you have seen a couple of highlight films of him, than i got nothing to discuss with you.

  139. Eric Powell Says:

    Oh yes, Phil Jackson - another huge advantage the bulls had back then when comparing them with the cavs this year...and I would try any two players on the cavs right now for a guy of pippens caliber

  140. newb Says:

    Well that's your opinion. I really don't think one period of time had better athletes than the other, just better overall players. Maybe the reason you didn't enjoy it as much is because of the liltle tight shorts they used to wear.

  141. Eric Powell Says:

    actually im all for them going back to those shorts haha! What team was it last year that brought them back for a game and then changed back to normal length at halftime? that was hilarious

  142. Mike Says:

    i think bball in the 80s and early 90s was more dramatic and was more purely about bballand the TEAM mentality..i think now guys are uust soo athletic and have perfected it so much it has lost some of the drama and TEAM play. but now they are undoubtedly BETTER basketball players..cuz they have learned all that stuff from the guys who came before them and perfected it (Kobe/Lebron from MJ/Magic)
    the sad thing is, players now are afriad to have those instense rivalries cuz then everyone will think they are ass holes and have no respect for them...stupid media

  143. newb Says:

    really you would, cuz i would take Z and and Mo and my Bulls would put a beat down on your cavs.

  144. Eric Powell Says:

    yea i do miss those rivalries for sure

  145. Eric Powell Says:

    well lets wait til lebron gets into his prime and then ill trade those 2 for pippen

  146. Baller Says:

    Mike,

    Kobe is ONE of the greatest ball players today....no way did I mean he is THE BEST but ONE OF...each player has the own unique greatness Kobe, Dwayne Wade who is putting up ridiculous numbers (even though the Heat are hovering above .500), Lebron, Chris Paul, KG etc.
    But when people say Kobe is overrated or whatever I find it very preposterous, even when he wins a championship w/o Shaq, haters will still find some excuse...they always do

  147. newb Says:

    Mike, doesnt matter how much you try to emulate something, the original is always better. Plus, do you really believe that the NBA have "undoubtedly BETTER basketball players" than the 80's and 90's??? Anything you could think one of this young players has done has already been done buddy. Take Howard for example, monster year right? Well Hakeem during the 89-90 season averaged 14 rebounds, 4.6 blocks, and 24.3 points per game, not to mention more assist and stels per game... Look, you take the top five players today and i can name you atleast 10 guys that had similar or better seasons back then.

  148. Mike Says:

    Baller,
    i honestly couldnt agree more with that last post, maybe i just misunderstood you and maybe you do think LeBron is the best
    and i totally, agree ppl are dumb and dont give kobe the respect he deserves, but its the same way with LeBron (well the commentators certainly do ride his nuts tho ahah, they are so dumb)..if he wins this year they will say he only did it cuz he got help, and he only did it cuz the Lakers failed or something dumb like that..theyll still say he doesnt have a jumpshot (when you shoot 50% from the field i dont really understand why it matters anyways)

  149. Eric Powell Says:

    What about Wilt Chamberlain?? His stats are completely ridiculous, but would they be the same today? Not a chance.

  150. newb Says:

    that i agree with, if you wonder how we would had fair today, simple look at Shaq. That's what he was. Plus your talking about a player from the 60's 70's, not the same game, thats post shotclock era.

  151. Eric Powell Says:

    Howard is also only 22 and he's going to get better, im not saying he's better than the "dream" tho

  152. Eric Powell Says:

    and the 3 point range was shorter in the 80's and some of the 90's as well

  153. Baller Says:

    K last one for me,

    Basketball is a team game the only way you can get that Finals trophy is when those great players inspire the team to do great things or when the team steps up and helps that great player...Jordan/Bulls was one of the best at doing that...just think of what might have happened is Paxson missed that three, Pippen choked at a the free throw line, or Rodman tried shooting the ball more...the real question is will anyone beat the 57 - 69 Celtics record 11 championships in 13 years 8 in a row?

  154. newb Says:

    Well players dont always get better as they get older, that all depends. In fact, many get worst. But I agree that Howard will most likely improve his offense, specially under the tutelage of one the best centers in Ewing

  155. Mike Says:

    Newb,
    bro, thats exactly my point...they are all putting up similar numbers as they did back then..but its skewed cuz Defenses are better and players are more athletic defensivley too...thats the thing...the original is indeed better cuz it has never been seen before...but guys now have learned that and added the best parts of all the greats' games and have put it into their games today..thats what i am saying...basketball was better to watch back then, but if two comarable players like Larry Bird and LeBron played against each other you gotta think bron would come on top (and dont give me that they arent comparable..cuz their bball IQs are both off the charts)

  156. Eric Powell Says:

    no baller that will never happen again lol. At least I hope not!

  157. Eric Powell Says:

    well lebron and howard have vastly improved each year since coming into the league so I dont think they will stop improving anytime soon.

  158. Baller Says:

    Eric Powell,

    After watching the NBA for the last 20 years I can never say never; though if Jordan never retired some say they would have tied the Celtics all-time streak for 8 in a row

  159. Mike Says:

    57-69 Cs wont be touched only because there was what like 5 or 10 teams in the NBA back then..now, with the salary cap and the fact there is 30 teams, you cant have all that talent centralized on one team for so long...so it wont even be touched...in fact i think a 3 peat is going to be VERRY unlikely to happen for a long time cuz its just too spread out.

  160. Eric Powell Says:

    i mean howard avg'd like a block and half maybe last year? and now he leads the league in blocks

  161. Eric Powell Says:

    yea bulls might have been able to match it thats true, so maybe i shouldnt count it out from happening, unfortunately Jordan had to go try and play pro baseball for the white sox.

  162. Mike Says:

    Howard is straight up a BEAST...but his offense needs some serious work (as seen in the whopping KG put on him last night..and i genuinely HATE KG more than anyone else in the League..besides maybe Bowen ahaha what a tool)

  163. Baller Says:

    Mike,

    I was a believer that the present Celtics had the makings of a dynasty...but after that 7 losses out of 9 games, I started having second thoughts but like their previous trip in the playoffs, they always seem to pull through with a win just when you think they are out...as a Laker fan I am very jealous of their 3 all stars and exceptional bench

  164. newb Says:

    Mike,

    Todays league is all about OFFENCE, like i said in my previous post, todays rule set is tailored towards making teams score more and play faster. That was done in order to make the game more pleasing to the general public and sell more tickets and have better ratings, thats a fact. Back them it was much more harder to score, with hand checks being allow and all. i dont know how much basketball you have seen but you should maybe watch some video of the games back them and see how much more physical defenders were allow to be. Clyde Drexler even said it in an interview that he would had average more points and would had won a couple of rings playing in todays league. Jordan was arguably on of the top 5 2 guards in the league when he back at 40, and was averaging 20+ points, so how is the defence any better???

  165. Eric Powell Says:

    Yea Howard is an athlete for sure, ive never seen a guy that big that can jump as high as he can, but yea he has very few post moves and doesnt have much of a touch

  166. Eric Powell Says:

    I wish it was more physical today, L train would be knocking fools around just driving to the basket, i'd love to see someone "body" him up, your best way to stop his keep him contained or you'll just get knocked aside. he's 270 pounds and is usually the fastest guy on the floor, plus he played football so he doesnt mind contact one bit.

  167. Eric Powell Says:

    and i'd argue against jordan being a top 5 guard in the league when he came back, he just wasnt nearly as fun to watch.

  168. Yezsyr Says:

    A riveting argument I waltzed into.

    LeBron James is one of the best players of all time. Right now. And you can't even argue it. Point number one is that the 90's were a bad period in basketball. DONT confuse the 80's and the 90's. When Bird and Magic and the Bad Boys were in their prime, Jordan had just entered the league, and his Bulls teams were hardly a blip on the radar. As soon as that old guard started getting old, the rest of the league didnt really step up. Which team had the pieces to compete? Was Jeff Hornichek and Byron Russell gonna take Utah to the promised land? Or LJ, Starks, and Houston on the Knicks. Vashon Lenard and the injury prone Mashburn? Its not like the other teams were loaded. The 90's were a time of awesone big men and not much else.

    Nevermind the drug/alcohol problem that affected players like Vin Baker, Derrick Coleman and Len Bias. Can you say that anyone of Jordans contemporaries could guard him? Thunder Dan? Alvin Robertson? Dumars, Sprewell, ect. There wasnt a 2 or 3 that could keep up. The best perimeter defenders for a decade were on the same team(Jordan and Pippen). And when they added the 7 time all defensive first teamer, or one of the best low post defensive tandems of their day, and I dont understand how Jordan did what he did alone.

  169. Eric Powell Says:

    ah u said 2 guard

  170. Eric Powell Says:

    LEN BIAS thats a goddamn tragedy, i have a photo of him shooting over jordan in black and white and he's like a foot higher in the air than MJ, what a shame =(

  171. Baller Says:

    Remember when Howard was injured on the Magic's western conference road trip? There is no clear MVP on the Magic they just have a very good team not to mention Jameer Nelson is having a career year shooting at around %50 from the field

  172. Eric Powell Says:

    Nelson is playing really really well since he came back

  173. Yezsyr Says:

    Point two, which is completely ignored is that Jordan, and Kobe were both coached by one of the top two coaches, bar none, of all time. Phil Jackson is a genius of basketball who knows how to maximize the strength of the team he has. Jordan and Pippen for offense, big low post defenders to help shut down the glut of big men that the ninties had, and some three point marksmen for offensive balance. Mean while James is coached by Mike Brown. Nuf said there.

  174. Mike Says:

    Newb,
    i agree, they call the crappiest fouls now and protect the stars (Dwade plays basketball w/o dribbling most of the time ahah) and honestly, im 18 so i havent seen a lot of 80s ball, but i do know exactly what you are talking about with the fouls and stuff..i have seen all the MJ footage and lots of MAgic stuff and have definitely seen enough to know what the game was like, and how it has changed...but thats beside the point...im not looking at this in a comparative way...im thinking of it logically...its logical to think that Basketball has grown SOO much in the last 15 years so naturally there is a WAY larger talent pool to chose from. Then they all develop in AAU leagues and High School ball is way more intense than it used to be. From that, those guys look at what MJ, Magic, Hakeem, Larry..etc did and they copy the best aspects from each of those guys' game and then perfect it over and over again and then they put it all into one...Basically, what i am saying is that they are way more athletic now (i dont really know how you can argue that) and with that athleticisim, they have added a lot of talent and are on par with a lot of the stuff (in terms of basketball moves) that the greats did.
    Lastly, dude Jordan is legendary and kept his body in shape (i mean he used to bench 280 with a bummed shoulder before playoff games) so i dont think you can really justify that statement..its not like you leave the game for 3 years and instantly become a slob and lose any talent you once had (and im not sayin you think that) but its not like he lost as much as you are makin it sound like he did...hes MJ

  175. newb Says:

    so stockton, malone, barkley, clyde, payton, kemp, hardaway, isiah, dumars, dominique... list goes on, they all sucked i guess right? and also dont forget, many of the best players that around today started their careers in the mid to late 90's. So dumb argument.

    PS: I already said that the Bulls team of the late 90 was by far the best team jordan had around him, and they over achived with that team winning 72-10. so whats your point???

  176. Mike Says:

    haha..i love how ppl hate on Mike Brown..he is an UNREAL coach...completely changed the Cavs mentality...
    but that being said...he cant even breathe on Phil Jackson...lol, they didnt even belong on the same court on monday (Cavs vs Lakers game)ahah

  177. raul Says:

    im sorry but u are an idiot sir!!
    its one to compare him to jordan but to wilt ...???
    ur stupid ur only counting the season hes having this year and he is not even better than kobe and i am not a kobe fan!

    lebron will never be MJ and will never ever be close to wilt.

    period

  178. Eric Powell Says:

    Mike Brown has done a decent job thats for sure, but he was still a 1st year head coach when he came to the cavs

    all arguments aside im enjoying talking basketball with people that know their stuff, work is flying by lol!

  179. Eric Powell Says:

    Wilt was like the only 7 footer back then...

  180. Yezsyr Says:

    Lastly, considering the overall increase in skill now since the ninties, James is playing in one of the most competetive times in NBA history. A loaded Lakers squad, Boston, Orlando, San Antonio, the Suns, the Mavs, Rockets, Magic. I mean the influx of international players and improvement of the world in basketball should show how much the players today have improved. In the ninties there was no argument for who the best player in the NBA was. But just because there was a greater separation between Jordan and everyone else doesnt mean that James isnt as good. I'd takes CP3 over any 90's PG, and I'd take at Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, or Amare over any 90's PF. And for 3's its not even close how many more quality small forwards there are. The league is just much deeper and for Lebron to stand out as much as he does in a league were every team has guys with 40+ inch verts and freakish athletes, its just remarkable.

  181. Eric Powell Says:

    I agree completely Yezsyr. CP3 is probably the best pg i have ever seen and he's 23, every time even the worst ones have ridiculous athletes in the league today

  182. Eric Powell Says:

    every team*

  183. Mike Says:

    To everyone in this discussion,
    I think we cant really compare the different generations of basketball cuz just think of how many intangibles there are with that.
    For example, say one guy averaged 30 points in a crappy league (say like 98) and another guy averaged 24 in a TOUGH league (like 89 with the pistons) which one is better. You cant really say cuz its always comparative to who you play against. Another example (and im not saying this is true) say Wilt averaged 30/ year in a 15 season career but he played against crappy competition (with offensive minded refs, ahem, if you know what i mean) Does that make him comparable to MJ? no, not really. There is so many different things that can affect it from refs, 3 point line changes, amount of teams in the NBA, injuries, legal issues (ahem), and also if you play one team over and over again and keep losing, but beat other better teams, are you a bad team? No, just ask the utah jazz.

  184. Yezsyr Says:

    Newb, Dumars and Isaiah were past prime when Jordan won his championships. Nique's teams were bad. And so what that many of todays stars started there career in the mid to late ninteies. So they were either really young then, or really old now (Shaq, Kidd, Zo) No one who was dominating then is dominating now, so whats your point? Players kept developing after Jordan left. Its not like he retired and everyone reversed development so 'lesser pplayers' like Kobe and Bron could dominate.

  185. Eric Powell Says:

    yea mike all are arguments are pretty moot, its hard to compare guys who played in different generations of basketball. I just happen to think that the talent in the nba is greater than ever, so many young guys have come in the league recently and just tore it up.

  186. Mike Says:

    yea, finally, i knwo you prolly left Baller, but i just wanted to further my point about how players are better now than they used to be... a perfect example is..is Wilt better than MJ? no of course not. Cuz the game has gotten better and has progressed since Wilts time and players became bigger and stronger...
    thats exactly what has happned today..since the 80s players are bigger and stronger and faster and have all the skills that players before them had...thats what i am saying

  187. Eric Powell Says:

    ^^ yup

  188. KGCeltics Says:

    Kevin Garnett is the best, most explosive, highest intenstity player in the NBA. He should be reconized because he led his team to a championship last year, and soon a repeat this year. Tim Duncan sucks. He is a down right crappy player. GO Celts!!

  189. Mike Says:

    yea Eric, and just another thing about that..You think OJ Mayo is gonna be legendary with the Grizz...of course not...i think he has the potential to be but he does need a team around him...so theres just another intangible; if you get drafted by a bad team and have an incompetent GM/Head Coach..your goin nowhere

  190. Eric Powell Says:

    KG might be the highest intensity but he's def not the most explosive player lol. He's nasty just not as exciting to watch as lebron/kobe/dwayne/CP3

  191. Eric Powell Says:

    yea I think the NBA championship has only been won by like 5 different teams over the past 20 years or something, ya OJ can ball thats for sure, but as long as he's on the griz he wont go anywhere. I mean they practically gave away pau gasol when they could have at elast got like Ben gordan for him. I love watching Derrick Rose play that dude can ball.

  192. Mike Says:

    oh boy, this could get ugly cuz i hate KG more than anyone in the world, but i respect his game
    point is, KG couldnt do it with minnesota even with pretty decent teammates around him (2004 #1 ranked Minnesota team)
    only when he got the scoring of Pierce and Allen and the Clutch Defense/shots of James Posey, and the solid point guard play of rondo and the competent back up work of leon powe (and the list goes on) was he able to win a chip....
    he was easily the leader of that team..be he alone can't carry a team to anywhere past the first round...i believe timmy D is more of a complete player than "raw emotion" Garnett

  193. Yezsyr Says:

    The superlatives for Lebron are innumerable. To average 27 pts, 7 rebs, 7 asts as a 19 year old is mind boggling. To drop 20-6-6 a game the year after he graduated high school is unbelievable. That he's STILL improving is terrifying. As a matter of fact, I'd argue that at this point in their development(age 24), James is better than Jordan in every aspect of the game, sans free throw shooting. The fact that we still havent seen the best of Lebron, and that we're in for another decade of Dwight, CP3, Wade, Melo, Bosh, and James, and Rose, and Durant leads me to believe the next decade of basketball will be the stuff of legends.

  194. Eric Powell Says:

    I hate Duncan myself but he's damn effective lol, I just happen to think his game is lame - so boring to watch

  195. Mike Says:

    wow Eric, you and me are so alike man..i LOVE D Rose...one of my fave players since he was in high school for sure
    dude has got HOPS..i just hope he can sure up his jumper in the next couple years cuz then hell be a top 5 pg for the rest of his career for sure

  196. Mike Says:

    once again..i hate timmy d too cuz there really isnt any fun in fundamentals..but his game is untouched...4 rings with pretty mcuh a guarenteed 20 10..yea hes legit

  197. Eric Powell Says:

    yea lebron stats are out of this world, i just watched the ST.MARY vs. OAK HILL game and Lebron at 17 was already passing like Magic, and he was giving the ball to far less superior players cause the guy likes team basketball. I cant wait to see what happens over the next few years with the young talent thats in the league today

  198. Mike Says:

    yea..i think the next 10 years of ball will be the reincarnation of great rivalries and great ball.. Lebron vs anybody (kobe especially), CP3 vs D Will, Dwight vs KG (or maybe oden if he gets his act together)...Rose vs Mayo...wow i cant even wait
    my prediction tho..lebron gets 4 rings before all is said and done

  199. Eric Powell Says:

    Yea Rose is nasty, i never really watched him much until the NCAA tourney last year, but after watching him the nba this year I love his game, he's so fun to watch when he's pushing the ball up the floor.

    But yea I cant argue against timmy d's skillz

  200. Eric Powell Says:

    i'd love to see kobe/lebron this year, hopefully its their destiny and they will meet up in the finals

  201. KOBE FAN! Says:

    LEBRON ist the better individual player....but isnt it a team sport??!

    so the best team will win...and the cavs arent the best yet....

    you cant compare them...

    but if you have tuch much lifing time to spent for the threat fight...LOL...

    FROM an EUROPEAN KOBE AND LEBRON FAN.....

  202. Mike Says:

    yea man D Rose is defintely an exciting player
    Kobe/LeBron would be the ultimate way to shut all the Kobe supporters up ahahah
    Monday wasnt a good measuring stick cuz the Cavs were missing Z, Delonte and Big ben was sick, plus the lakers were missing Walton and Farmar so when everyone gets healthy itll be GREAT to watch

  203. Eric Powell Says:

    Kobe is a better scorer thats for sure and lebron may never shoot was well as kobe does with a hand in his face, but lebron's game is still developing and its already more complete than kobe's game.

  204. Eric Powell Says:

    yea cavs need to be fully healthy to face the lakers, we just arent big enough w out Z, and the lakers need farmar badly as well, it would def make for an exciting series, I think the only way the cavs could beat them is if they somehow get homecourt advantage

  205. Mike Says:

    for sure man thats exactly what it is Kobe=best scorer, Lebron= best overall player...im outy tho...been good chatting with some actually intelligent ppl for a change
    Go Cavs

  206. Eric Powell Says:

    Same Mike its been fun chatting
    GO CAVS

  207. KGCeltics Says:

    the only way the cavs will ever be able to beat the lakers is if the cavs keep getting better at D
    then it will be a great matchup

  208. mike Says:

    Stop it, comparing kobe or lebron to jordan will just make lebron and kobe not as good as a player.

    You guys think just cause oscar avg nearly a td all the time means hes stats owns everyone? Oscar defense were horrible!!! just cause he can score on anyone doesnt mean hes great, what seperate jordan from so many other is his defense, hes all defense first team for so many year and his defense player of the year award says a lot.

    Lebron jumpshots are questionable. His shots are just not jordan like or kobe like. Kobe is dangerous anywhere on the court. His 3 pointers are one thing he has thats superior than michael. None the less lebron free throw pct is DISGUSTING. Lebron is not a better defensive player than jordan or kobe. Hes a forward not a guard. His blocks avg should be higher but you people seem to forget jordang avg nearly 1 block per game and had 1.6 blockpergame one season.

    Jordan shooting pct is at 50% for his career, his earlier years he was well above 50%. Lebron has great shooting pct but is not nearly as good as michael in his earlier years. They say lebron is a better passer .. Because he avgs high apg, well michael had 8rpg 8apg and avg 32.5ppg one season. And also michael career 3p pct isnt 28.8% what are you getting your stats from? hes 32.7% for his career.

    IT IS WAY TOO EARLY TO COMPARE THESE PLAYERS. AND IF YOU WANT TO JUST TAKE THEIR EARLIER YEARS JORDAN IS WAY SUPERIOR THAN KOBE AS HE WAS BENCH MOST OF HIS FIRST 2 SEASON, AND LEBRON STATS ISNT CLOSE. TAKE THEIR CAREER STATS WHEN THEY RETIRED, FORGET ABOUT THE RINGS LETS SAY, TAKE THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENT WHEN THEY ARE GONE, LETS SEE IF THEY CAN COME BACK FROM 18MONTH RETIREMENT AND DOMINATE THE NBA AT MID 30'S AND COME BACK TO PLAY AT 38 39 AND STILL AVG 20ppg 6RPG 5APG 1.5SPG

    AND MATTER OF FACT, STOP TAKING THEIR REGULAR SEASON STATS AND COMPARE. YOU WANT TO COMPARE STATS? COMPARE THEIR PLAYOFF STATS, THEIR FINAL STATS. THE GAMES THAT MATTER MUCH MORE THAN JUST THE REGULAR SEASON.

    LEBRON OR KOBE IS NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS MICHAEL. STOP LETTING THE MEDIA HYPE YOU. ITS NOT HAPPENING.

  209. mike Says:

    After reading some of you younger fans agurement, I have realize most of you dont understand that the 90s were NOT weak, the 90s were defense were NOT as good as the 80s? but since you fans said the 80s had the craziest basketball era. Look again at michaels stats. His best seasons are ALL in the 80's. He avg 37 ppg in 1986. HOWARD IS A BEAST COMPARE TO THE LEAGUE NOW. HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN DAVID ROBINSON ? BIGGER, STRONGER. 71 point in a game? MVP? HAKEEM? SHAQ IN HIS PRIME IN THE 90's? EWING? someone said they did pick any PF in the league now over the past. KARL MARLONE IS RANKED THE BEST POWER FORWARD OF ALL TIME. Take any PF in the league now and compare their stats to malone. The 90s had no guards? Ever think that maybe they didnt seem so good because they played in the jordan era? Magic will tell you who is the greatest of all time. Bird will tell you who is god.

    ADD ALL OF JORDANS ACCOMPLISMENT, TEAM STATS, IND STATS AND AWARD UP. YOU ONLY GET ONE NUMBER

    AND THAT NUMBER IS NUMBER ONE.

  210. Therealdeal Says:

    The a look @these other numbers posted under nba.com story..

    Even the greats struggle
    LeBron James shot a miserable 8-for-28 in last Thursday's loss in Chicago. It was the fourth time in his 431-game career that he's missed at least 20 shots, a pace of once every 108 games. His high for misses is 23, which he did twice.

    Kobe Bryant has missed 20 or more shots 31 times in 907 career games, a pace of once every 29 games. He missed 30 shots (shooting 17-for-47) in an overtime loss in Boston on Nov. 7, 2002.

    According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Michael Jordan missed 20 or more shots 28 times in 1072 career games, a pace of once every 38 games. His high for misses was 27, when he shot 12-for-39 in a win over San Antonio on Nov. 3, 1997

  211. Division3coach Says:

    Damm i read that story also is under the east point guards thing on nba.com

    Lebron keeps quitely humping away@all these stats hes killing both Mj and kobe on them stats right there..But the reason hes doing that is cuz Lebron got court vision like nothing we seen before i mean he has bad games like that every 108 games while MJ did every 38 games and kobe every 27 games and hes only 24....Lebron is clearly the best decision maker then kobe and MJ ..Men Lie but the numbers dont....

  212. Eric Powell Says:

    Yea Lebron's numbers and efficiency are absurd and he's doing it with a mediocre team around him.

  213. Division3coach Says:

    I hope Lebron breaks that pg record Jordan has and starts winning championships people think They will never be nobody like Jordan in the futured not even in a million Years thats the dummest thing i ever heard ....

    Sky is the limit
    Lebrons commercial dont be like me ,Be better then me i love that commercial

  214. lakernation Says:

    Hey records are ment to be broken...

  215. Therealdeal Says:

    The a look @these other numbers posted under nba.com story..

    Even the greats struggle
    LeBron James shot a miserable 8-for-28 in last Thursday’s loss in Chicago. It was the fourth time in his 431-game career that he’s missed at least 20 shots, a pace of once every 108 games. His high for misses is 23, which he did twice.

    Kobe Bryant has missed 20 or more shots 31 times in 907 career games, a pace of once every 29 games. He missed 30 shots (shooting 17-for-47) in an overtime loss in Boston on Nov. 7, 2002.

    According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Michael Jordan missed 20 or more shots 28 times in 1072 career games, a pace of once every 38 games. His high for misses was 27, when he shot 12-for-39 in a win over San Antonio on Nov. 3, 1997

  216. jim Says:

    dam... you noe wat ur talkin about...
    LEBRON IS THE GREATEST!!! EVERYONE MUST OPEN THEIR EYES AND ACCEPT THIS FACT

  217. AreWeSerious Says:

    Barkley, Julious Erving and Nigue had better ORtg and DRtg than Kobe some years. Are they better then Kobe Bean Bryant? Not even close. Please, u look foolish. On to Lebron. He doesn't have the mental toughness to hit a game winner. Sure his drives and dunks are unreal highlights, but better defenses can design systems to shut him down.

    Best Offensive Forces Ever - 1. Wilt "The Stilt" 2.MJ 3.KB24

  218. Eric Powell Says:

    The Sky is the limit for Lebron, he just turned 24, his IQ is off the charts, he's an inch shorter and weighs 10 pounds less than Karl Malone did and he can handle the ball as well as any guard and he will beat just about anyone on down the court on a fast break. He is the freakest of the freak athletes out there. Once he gets to a full steam he almost impossible to stop as he goes to the bucket shrugging off 2-4 guys while he cradles the bball like a football. And his defense keeps improving, soon he will be a lockdown defender on positions 1-4 as well as being able to guard some 5's.

  219. Eric Powell Says:

    Doesnt have the mental toughness?? did u watch game 5 2008 against the pistons? he scored the last 29 of 30 points on one of the best defenses in the league with virtually no help offensively, and he did it at the palace when the series was 2-2.

  220. andy wigga Says:

    Stats are very interesting but I prefer look at the matches, and Kobe is my favourite player. Lebron is also a great champion (also he will never win a title, like Stockton or Malone) but the talent of Kobe is bigger. Lebron is the future, like Paul, and I hope he will never find a player sponsored by someone like Nash, and that he can win the right number of mvp.

  221. NIROSHAN Says:

    eh guys, this whole forum is pointless, comon why we arguing on this topic, everyone who watches NBA knows that KOBE is the man, lebron's time will come but right im sorry its not right since KObe did not retire yet. By the way kobe is reall hott and his wife is hott and i love em all!!

  222. newb Says:

    Guys, Michael played the late 80's, the full 90's and into the early century. He dominated the 90's, when players like Kobe, Iverson, Jason Kid, Shaq, Duncan... Many who are still to this day some of the best talent available in the NBA. There is absolutely no evidence that proves that the players now are more or better athletes. Yes, Basketball has become more broad, and now we see influx from Europe, Asia and such. Thats really the only difference when it comes down to the pool of talent. Guys like MJ, Dominique, Dr J, David Robinson, are as much if not better athletes than the guys today... I mean we are not talking here about 50 years, we are talking a merely 10 to 20 years ago, the game of basketball got as developed as much as it ever was gonna get during the 90's. What are this "developments" you seen today that you have never seen during the 90's??? and to the guy called yeszyr, your obviously need to go back and research a lil bit about basketball history, the late 80's and 90's had some of the most talented teams to ever play, most teams back them had a dominating big man in the middle and defenses were much more tough than todays were just about every team averages above a 100 points per game. And if you think Dominique's (a hall of famer) Hawks were so bad, go watch the 1985-1986 easter conf semi's, and watch a legendary duel between Dominique and Larry Bird, and then tell me exactly how today they are better athletes. Just DUMB

  223. newb Says:

    Young kids in here really need to do their research and watch some 90's ball. Just compare Jordan's and Lebrons season stats next to each other, not even close. MJ his rookie year avg is 28 per game, thats ridiculous, not to mention 2.4 stl and 5.9 ast. How can this kids seriously sit here and type that lebron is already the greatest, thats just stupid. Look, do yourself's a favor and to MJ basketbal-reference page and then maybe you guys will beging to understand why Lebron is not better than Jordan. Also look up some of the teams and players he had to play against. And to the guys that said that they would take any pg and pf of today over a guy from the 80' and 90's, go look up who karl malone is, Moses Malone, Kevin Mchale, Charles Barkley, and by the way Tim Duncan played thru the 90's aswell. Go take a look at John Stockton, the all time leader in assist and steals, go look at Magic, Isiah, Jason kidd, Gary Payton, Kevin Johnson, and then tell me how todays pg's and pf's are better.

  224. jie Says:

    This is the Race to MVP.

    Most(Played/Wins) x Value(Pts + Reb + As + Blk + Stl - TO - Missed FT -Missed FG) = Player

    B4 : RNK : M W x V = PLAYER

    01 : 01 : 33 W x 30.0 = 990.0 LeBron James , CLE
    02 : 02 : 31 W x 27.1 = 840.1 Dwight Howard , ORL
    03 : 03 : 34 W x 24.4 = 829.6 Kobe Bryant , LAL
    06 : 04 : 35 W x 21.9 = 766.5 Kevin Garnett , BOS
    05 : 05 : 26 W x 29.4 = 764.4 Chris Paul , NOH
    04 : 06 : 33 W x 23.0 = 759.0 Pau Gasol , LAL
    07 : 07 : 29 W x 24.8 = 719.2 Tim Duncan , SAS
    08 : 08 : 36 W x 18.9 = 680.4 Paul Pierce , BOS
    11 : 09 : 36 W x 17.9 = 644.4 Rajon Rondo , BOS
    10 : 10 : 33 W x 18.8 = 620.4 Rashard Lewis , ORL
    15 : 11 : 26 W x 23.5 = 611.0 Yao Ming , HOU
    12 : 12 : 24 W x 25.4 = 609.6 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL
    17 : 13 : 34 W x 17.9 = 608.6 Andrew Bynum , LAL
    13 : 14 : 36 W x 16.8 = 604.8 Ray Allen , BOS
    09 : 15 : 22 W x 27.2 = 598.4 Dwyane Wade , MIA
    18 : 16 : 29 W x 19.4 = 562.6 Chauncy Billups , DEN
    16 : 17 : 28 W x 20.0 = 560.0 Nene Hilario , DEN
    19 : 18 : 33 W x 16.6 = 547.8 Hedo Turkoglu , ORL
    20 : 19 : 29 W x 18.4 = 533.6 Jameer Nelson , ORL
    14 : 20 : 23 W x 23.1 = 531.3 Amare Stoudamire , PHX
    22 : 21 : 26 W x 20.1 = 522.6 Joe Johnson , ATL
    24 : 22 : 33 W x 14.9 = 491.7 Mo Williams , CLE
    23 : 23 : 23 W x 21.3 = 489.9 Brandon Roy , POR
    30 : 24 : 25 W x 19.2 = 480.0 Jason Kidd , DAL

    NO GAME, LOST GAME -> NO POINT

    NO SHOWTIME, NO HISTORY, NO FAVORITISM, NO GUESSING, NO STORIES

    JUST MOST WINS X NUMBERS

    My TOP Players last year from that computation were KB24 & CP3

  225. Witness Says:

    Excuse me "Newb". Yes MJ did have an amazing Rookie seaon but he also went to 4 years of college to develope his skills. LeBron averaged only 20.9 his Rookie season but thats out of high school. When he was 21 (The age MJ was when he entered the league) Lebron averaged 31.4 points per game. wow! And all tho I believe Lebron will have a shot at being the greatest, just by stats right now you have to give that up to Wilt. He averaged 37.6 points per game his Rookie season, and walked away with the scoring title and MVP. Not to mention Wilts 50.4ppg and 25.7rpg season. Idk belive we will ever see another 50 and 25 season again but please give BronBron sometime the win these championships and MVPs, I have a feeling we will bee seeing alot of both soon.

  226. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    ...Follow the yellow brick road, follow the yellow brick road, follow the yellow brick road... Hollinger obviously believes people are very naive, but this so-called rating goes beyond The Wizard of OZ!
    ...Unfathomable has the drive for LeHype become, reaching for the utter most depths of this hype full abyss!

  227. Witness Says:

    And for people who want to talk about rings on players who have played in the NBA longer than a min (Give LeBron his chance). Yes Kobe does have 3 championships but Mike has 6... and oh yeah a guy by the name of Bill Russell has 11 in 13 seasons! wow!

  228. LBJ Says:

    The test of an MVP is how good they make the players around them and how far they take their team. Kobe has two 7ft monsters in his team with Gasol and Bynum, he has one of the most experience Point Guards (in Fisher) and the best bench in the NBA. What does LeBron have? A solid centre, two ok point guards and a pretty much past it power forward. The reason the Cavs have one of the best records in the league is because he is a great leader, a huge force on offence and D and a big game performer. There is no guard big enough to guard him, no forward fast enough to guard him and no centre stupid enough to get in his way. LeBron may have the potential to be as good as Jordan but i dont think he will get 6 rings. But when he gets a decent support cast and a better jump shot he will make Kobe look like an amateur. Right now I wud say they are pretty close LeBron is just better though.

  229. bryan Says:

    Along with what Travis number 6 says....it is obvious that Tim Duncan is the greatest player overall in modern professional basketball...He is not the most athletic, but intelligent...four rings...in an era of shaq..kobe..lebron..amare..chris paul..jason kidd..dirk..iverson..kg..i could keep going for quite some time...those are names people throw out there as todays greats, and still none equal what tims done...all defensive team every year of his career..all nba first team every year of his career..four rings..2 mvps..shaq isnt even on that level of accomplishment, and thats supposed to be the most dominant player ever...just think critically about it for a moment..

  230. AreWeSerious Says:

    First off, I'm a big Kobe Bryant fan so ill try to be as least bias as possible. Did anyone watch Lakers/Cavs on MLK? Yea Lebron had some injured starters, (the Lakers are banged up as well with 1 point guard) but I'm pretty sure Kobe's D controlled Lebron for most of the game. Both stars had less than average performances but Kobe showed up in the 4th, with 3 fingers on his shooting hand, (2 not counting the thumb). Lebron has yet to be consistant in that area of his game. When comparing Kobe and Jordan some people may look at the fadeaway, or the slashing moves to the cup with the off-balance finishes. But its the killer instinct thats most similar. KB24 is an assasin come crunch time and he proves it time and time again. One could say Oscar Robertson's numbers were better than MJ's. Is the "Big O" better then Jordan, or even Kobe? Please. It's all about what you do in the clutch and Kobe is arguably second to Jordan all time. Think about this. Give Kobe a Dennis Rodman, one of the greatest rebounders and defenders for his position, give hime a Pippen, and a Ron Harper who are both top 10 to 20 in steals in NBA history and see how dominant the Lakers are. Don't get me wrong LA's offense is just about flawless, but most of the time defense wins championships, (which Ariza and Bynum have made exceptionally better).

    LBJ23 has better numbers (this year)and is the freakishly better athlete between himself and KB24, but it's not numbers (which Kobe isn't worried about) its about winning, and we all know who we'd want taking the shots down the stretch. It's not close.

    One more thing, for the NBA analysts on ESPN saying Dwyane Wade should be ahead of people like Kobe Bryant or Dwight Howard in the MVP race, you are delusional. His team sucks. Can we think back when Kobe averaged 35.7 a game when he had SMUSH PARKER and KWAME BROWN in the starting lineup, KWAME BROWN!! And oh yea they made the playoffs with a better record then Miami is going to end up with.

    I'm to good for this group. Holler.

  231. Dustin Says:

    wow, so lebron doesn't dominate the paint? does anyone remember last year in the playoffs when he dunked OVER KG. yeah that's right, over him.

  232. AreWeSerious Says:

    one more thing. does anyone else throw up in their mouth a little when lebron takes a jumpshot. its just..... awfull looking, just awfull.

  233. AreWeSerious Says:

    WOW LEBRON CAN DUNK HE MUST BE THE BEST EVER. who gives a sheeeeeit. That really makes a player good.

  234. Dustin Says:

    wow, his jumpshot is better than people give him credit to. Who just one the game with a jump shot with .1 seconds left on the clock? yeah lebron

  235. Dustin Says:

    u r funny because he doesnt just do that. he has some of the best passing skills, he's a much improved defender, he blocks, he steals, and everything else. lebron is beter than kobe

  236. Snipe Says:

    not counting the thumb??? are you serious? you definitely count the thumb... having a thumb makes it easier to handle a shot! why? can you shoot in the perimeter with just 3 fingers? go to hell if you do! hahaha how can you shoot if you don't handle the ball well, it does make a big difference... loosing one of the other fingers are fine, i know 'coz i've experienced it... =D

    "Don’t get me wrong LA’s offense is just about flawless, but most of the time defense wins championships" hell yeah! great D is the key to win championships, that's why boston won. please tell to your kobe to train harder in "D" =D

    "LBJ23 has better numbers (this year)and is the freakishly better athlete between himself and KB24" you said it youself! so Lebron wins! woohoo... hahahaha loser!

    "and we all know who we’d want taking the shots down the stretch." yeah it's kobe! kobe, kobe, kobe. when someone's free and has a better position?! hey, look it's still kobe. and when his shot misses, it's him to blame! wahahaha

    "One more thing, for the NBA analysts on ESPN saying Dwyane Wade should be ahead of people like Kobe Bryant or Dwight Howard in the MVP race, you are delusional. His team sucks." ooohh... you better watchout for D-Wade's fans... you hurt their feelings hahaha =D

    one thing man you said, "I’m to good for this group. Holler." YEAH! Holler man! AMEN to that! you're to good in kissing kobe's ass! nyahahaha =D

  237. Snipe Says:

    "it is obvious that Tim Duncan is the greatest player overall in modern professional basketball" oh yes! the big fundamental! that's why only KG is the great matchup for Timmy. what a rivalry?! T_T huhu... both players cannot co-exist in one team... they will fight! hahaha =D

  238. AreWeSerious Says:

    YOU DONT USE UR THUMB TO SHOOT! thats what i was talkin about not handling jackass. yo snipe u have to know about sports to talk about em. Jason Richardson could be a better athlete than Kobe. Who's a better BBall player? Being a better athlete helps ur SKILLS. Kobe's more agile and skillfull then Lebrick. Like, are u some type of extra chromosome? Ur real creative and origional in ur argument by the way (hows the sarcasm doin for ya) shmuck.

  239. AreWeSerious Says:

    it took him 6 years to hit a game winner.. without "crab-walkin" hooorayy

  240. Snipe Says:

    hey Newb!!! don't forget Shawn Kemp! and Drexler too! hehehe add them up! =D

  241. Snipe Says:

    how can you shoot without handling the ball? why? you use your feet? wahahaha =D

  242. AreWeSerious Says:

    he uses the thunmb to handle but u dont use ur thumb to shoot are u an extra CHROMOSOME?

  243. Snipe Says:

    did i say you use you're thumb to shoot? are you blind mhan?! hahaha read the lines closely and slowly... for you to shoot alot of "swoosh" you need to have great handling skills like your idol, if not, good! get some lessons from him maybe someday you learn... that is if you learn dumbass! just practice mah boi, practice! an old man says "keep practicing until you die trying" hahaha =D

  244. AreWeSerious Says:

    u dont need to tell me how to play bball i would fade over u "mah boi". dude UR DUMB. listen! JJ Redick is a great shooter, his handles suck.. so their goes ur arguement... you need handles "to shoot a lot of swoosh" (thats your extra chromosome kickin in) IF YOU'RE FADING OVER people and to get your own shot. ur not smart. "hahaha" =D" everyone in the room thinks ur a shmuck, u have to make sense. do some studying before u speak ur nonsense.

  245. AreWeSerious Says:

    yoo John Hollinger, u need to re-do ur homework. its not about metrics. ur makin it seem like barkley, nigue, and erving are even remotely close to Kobe's level. cmon. u can't fool the real fans.

  246. AreWeSerious Says:

    or Neil Paine whoever wrote that

  247. Therealdeal Says:

    Eat these kobe lovers..Look @these story on nba.com

    Even the greats struggle
    LeBron James shot a miserable 8-for-28 in last Thursday's loss in Chicago. It was the fourth time in his 431-game career that he's missed at least 20 shots, a pace of once every 108 games. His high for misses is 23, which he did twice.

    Kobe Bryant has missed 20 or more shots 31 times in 907 career games, a pace of once every 29 games. He missed 30 shots (shooting 17-for-47) in an overtime loss in Boston on Nov. 7, 2002.

    According to the Elias Sports Bureau, Michael Jordan missed 20 or more shots 28 times in 1072 career games, a pace of once every 38 games. His high for misses was 27, when he shot 12-for-39 in a win over San Antonio on Nov. 3, 1997.

  248. Division3coach Says:

    Lebron is clearly the better decision maker and court visionary of the two....

    These original story on top is about greatness and u kobe lovers find a way to come in here to trown ur nonsence in here are u guys serious.....

    Kepp dreaming on ur own little world that kobe is the best the rest ofthe world has move on is about time that u guys wake up an see that is not 05-06 season these is the 08-09 season and Lebron is clearly the best...

  249. Stolniik Says:

    Ray says:
    "are you just plain stupied"

    Lol you are saying we are STUPID for reading this article. This artical has stats which no one can disagree on. Finally Lebron can be recognised for his true greatness, especially over Kobe. Not only us as fans agree to this article, but the NBA too otherwise they would not have published it on their website, otherwise Lebron would nobe be ahead of Kobe in stats and on the MVP board.
    Btw kid, When you want to put someone down and insult them, please learn how to spell, you are only making the fact that you are a high school dropout more noticeable.

    Lebron James is no doubtly the best player in the League atm, and just as Good as MJ. Don't agree? Then re read this article and put a sock in your mouth.

  250. LEBRON FAN (GIRL) Says:

    YO, U RAY DUDE IN DA BEGGIN
    U READ THIS AND COMMENTED
    I GUESS DAT MEANS UR RETARDED AND AND IDIOT 2
    LEBRON RROX
    HE IS DA BEST, THAT'S Y THEY CALL HIM "KING JAMES" DUHHHH
    AND BTW KOBE SUX! I HATE HIM! THAT BALL HOG, HE THINX HE IS AMAZING HE IS NOT!!!! KOBE IS NOT WORTHY TO BE COMPARED TO LEBRON
    Y WUD U EVEN COMPARE THEM ANYWAY?
    EVERY1 NOES
    LEBRON IS #1

  251. AreWeSerious Says:

    Yeah we saw that a million times ur a genius. Division3coach clearly you dont't realize that kobe played for about 3-4 seasons with this starting lineup - smush parker, kobe, luke walton, lamar odom, and KWAME BROWN. Would you pass to them? So he forced some shots here and there with that horific lineup. If you see its the "08-09 season" then you would know kobe is far from selfish, can finish from ANYWHERE on the court, and is the ultimate closer. Yes lebron is an insane passer he can see the whole court, but kobes passing is vastly underrated and isnt too far behind. Plus lebron is a pass first shoot second player. KB24's also a better on-ball defender. Did we see em slow down prince james? LBJ23 is more of a weak side defender. Not to metion that game came down to SHOOTING! And we all know who's better at that. Can I get some competition, please?

    Ya'll can't get on my level u gonna need a space shuttle or a ladder thats forever.

  252. AreWeSerious Says:

    someone remove snipe from the list he makes us all dumber

  253. AreWeSerious Says:

    and u to therealdeal that first one was for u

  254. Division3coach Says:

    Lebron tonight shot over 50% from the floo 33 points 14 rebounds 9 assists Just another they in the job and these was in a back2back night u guys get over it quit saying kobe is the best cuz all u bums are keep saying over and over that hes a much better closer.....Cuz yall keep getting owned by every other argument......

  255. Division3coach Says:

    Dude if u know math he missed 20 shots every 29 games so thats about 2 and a half a season thats equal 3 season wish he had a bad team were the other 22 horrible games ..U kobelovers dont get it even if is on ur face ..Damn get over it hes not the best no more....

    If Jerry west wasent the NBA logo it be MJ or Lebron..

    I mean look how many good shooters he has on his team and he cannot even come closeto getting the per game that Lebron is getting on pace to brake MJ record..Kobelovers these topic is about greatness please dont come in here putting ur kobe on these level cuz hes not if not he be in the top of that list so go away....

  256. Theone Says:

    LOL if kobe had a great story like these one, almost in pace to break the alltime Per game record laker fans be saying hes god..They dont get over the fact that Kobe aint the best no more...

    Watch Cavs game tonight Lebron 33 points 14 rebs 9 assists after last nights game winner these guy just keeps getting better..

  257. AreWeSerious Says:

    You all have disabillities. PER who gives a sheeeeit.?! I'm the only one who types english and has legitimate points. The man is 6-8, 265-270 and can jump higher then anyone i hope he gets rebounds. And all he does is drive and kick it to very good three point shooters and he gets an assist. You have to admit alot of games he looks lifeless and just stands around and lets the shot-clock wind down which results in awful looking fadeaways. You heard it hear first - COME PLAYOFF TIME THE GOOD DEFENSES WILL SHUT HIS DRIVING LANES. and then what? He'll have to start settling with 3's and long 2's. You lebron fans get so happy when he comes flying in for dunks. yea hes the best dunker. notice how he didnt enter the slam dunk contest, hes afraid of failing, hes afraid of the spotlight. THE GREAT ONES ARENT AFRAID OF FAILURE. KOBE can do it all. you LBJ23 fans know im right in the back of your mind, dont be bias and really have an intelligent response(in english). Ya'll keep gettin schooled by a 20 yr old.

    YO Division3coach (first off we can see why u coach division 3) who closed the game out with 3 fingers in LeBricks grill? Know one can get his shot like Kobe. THIS IS ON NBA.COM STEP IT UP SHMUCKS. PLEASE.!!!!!!

  258. AreWeSerious Says:

    PER doesnt mean a thing. Boozer is ahead of Kobe. Boozer couldnt see KB24's level if he had helicopters and sheeeit. Nice try Hollinger.

  259. aliswfan Says:

    LeBron is the best player in this league and i am not able to understand why some people can't accept this truth... Way to go LeBron!

  260. ag1 Says:

    Lebron isn't the best in the league by a longshot.
    Lets put this garbage ass argument to rest.
    We already know what kind of imbeciles run this site.

  261. leblowjob Says:

    Lebron is the best ever, yet not even the best in the league.
    Oh the irony!

  262. Stolniik Says:

    AreWeSerious says:
    "And all he does is drive and kick it to very good three point shooters and he gets an assist. "

    Alright.. Lebron has the physical capabilities to drive the lane and pass it out, that is what breaks a defence. If you knew anything about Basketball at all, that is one of the best strategies in order to break a touch perimeter defence. And also as stated above, MJ loved to drive it to the lane just as much as LBJ does, and both of them can get there and finish there, where as Kobe is forced to shoot the Midrange shot because he doesn't have the strength to do what they could. Therefore Kobe relies on his shooting, working only on his shooting.

    AreWeSerious says:
    "Division3coach clearly you dont’t realize that kobe played for about 3-4 seasons with this startin
    lineup - smush parker, kobe, luke walton, lamar odom, and KWAME BROWN. Would you pass to them?"

    First of all Lamar Odom is an amazing player, and if you were to watch any Lakers games you will notice that too. Smush Parker and Luke Walton arn't that bad either? Much better than what LBJ had to deal with his whole career until the addition of Ben Wallace and Mo Williams. And yet he still managed to charge them straight to the playoffs, last season having a game 7 with Boston, the no.1 team in the league at the time. Yet, when the lakers matche dup with them in the finals, Kobe chocked. Kobe had the same team he has now, and yet the Lakers were SWEPT, so don't go saying Kobe has no team mates. Shaq won the rings for Kobe.

    AreWeSerious says:
    "kobes passing is vastly underrated and isnt too far behind. Plus lebron is a pass first shoot second
    player."

    Kobe's passing is only underrated because you hardly see it. Kobe will only pass the ball if the Lakers have a clear lead, where he feels he doesnt need to do anything else. Whereas Lebron's "pass first, shoot second" creates a more efficient player as he tends to try help his team mates achieve, rather than only looking out for himself. His fans love it, his team mates love it and it works. He isn't the best player in the league for nothing? Kobe WAS the best, until the Cavaliers drafted LBJ into the league. That is when everything changed.

    Now I hope this shuts all you Kobe lovers right up.

  263. Stolniik Says:

    Few spelling mistakes.. It's 1am over here.. bit tired.

  264. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    All of this crap, is just that...CRAP! ...means nothing, absolutely worthless! ...And to all the imbeciles, who still do not want to accept and understand why Kobe is considered the best player on the planet... Get a grip of your delusional selves, y'all are simply in denial!

  265. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    Today, yesterday, and tomorrow; As long as King Kobe is in the League, LeHype will NEVER be top dawg, not even close! ...When Kobe is healthy and wants to take whomever out of their game, he can do it all day long, unlike ANYONE, has ever been able to do, EVER! ...LeBron is clearly not the best! ...That distinction goes to the one and only “Kobe Bean Bryant”, The Real Deal, Hands Down! ...Anybody “foolishly hyped” enough to debate this is simply that...Foolishly Hyped!
    ...In 5 years LeBron will not be the so-called beast he is today, and he will need to adjust his game to compensate for more of the League, wising up and following the blueprint on stopping James; not to mention, the physical beating he will no doubt amass during this tenure, and all the while, trying to keep up with the competitive nature that forever dwells in Bryant, which only one other (MJ), has been known to bring! ...The fool’s gold rhetoric you hear from all of LeHype’s bandwagon nut-huggers, about LeBron unquestionably getting much better, is just that...Nut-Huggers Fool’s Gold and a HUGE ??????

  266. LEBRON FAN (GIRL) Says:

    OH I'M DA SAME PERSON AS
    #249
    BTW

  267. LEBRON FAN (GIRL) Says:

    and 262

  268. manchester magic Says:

    Lets face it , we all know in 10years LBJ will have won atleast 4 of the 10 chamiionships on offer and 5 0f the mvp. he's discovered around 70 % of his potential while kobes dicovered around 95%. And ppppppllllzzzz don't start talking bull about lebron, about the big o, and lbjs' shooting game. first of all he's avraging around 34 mins. Second ly , he was great but the big O was not plaing in this evoloutionary era of defense we are in this decade, (pppssss, hint, compare the level of athleticism between the 2 eras.0 But latsly and most importantly, LeBroncan shoot and he can shoot in the clutch, it's mind boggling 2 even imagine that we're going 2 see another performance like we saw against Dyeroit in the next 5 yrs. other than LeBron. His level of versatility and mixture uf skill and talent is just unbelievable. it's clear he 's better and he's stepping this year and playing better thatn Kobe. out of the three he's had to shoot he's already nailed one tagger to sink stew jackson and the rest of gsw. And hello , he's turned the Q for a laughing stock to a fortress (20 and 0!) baby,but if u still think kobe is better i won't disrespect the black momba . But we'll wait til the playoff's or just i just fast forward and say till we see LeBron cutting down a net with a sea of fans at his feet. Peace out baby. P.S. LEBRON for MVP!!!!!!

  269. basketball fan Says:

    to all of you kobe is the best in the nba lebron is right on his ass. lebron will eventually be the best in the history of the nba, but before that can happen he needs to continue to getting better at shooting the ball. kobe arguably has the best foot work in da league. he could pick up his dribble be hounded by a defender and somehow twist and turn his way into an incredible shot on a consistent basis. But after all that said jordan is the best ever, better then kobe and bron bron. he didn't have much of a team. i'm a huge laker fan (not kobe fan) and jordan beat the lakers with cartwright and wennington playing big minutes. kobe nor bron bron would be able to win even one championship with those players playing significant minutes.

  270. AreWeSerious Says:

    thank you MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC!.. Lebron fans get so excited or "hyped" as JUAN is sayin because he has sick drives.. and ill admit he is the best driver of the ball ive ever seen, but playoff defenses will design systems to stop him, and he'll settle for jumpers.. he doesnt have a mid range game folks its OBVIOUS. Kobe can get any shot he wants from anywhere on the court. he is the best ever, yes EVER at shooting the ball with immense pressure on him.. and sometimes it comes down to that.(im not saying hes better overall than MJ). Kobes driving ability is closer to Lebrons than Lebrons shooting ability is to Kobes. Kobes on-ball D is better, and do I even have to mention his closing ability. LBJ fans have to admit that you want the ball in KB24's hands in the final minutes. Second in that category all time to Jordan. Kobe can honestly do whatever he wants on the court.

    YO LEBRON FANGIRL!!! you know absolutely nothing about sports or lebron, u prolly think hes on detroit. dont step to this comin in with that nonsense.

  271. AreWeSerious Says:

    yo basketballfan that was a different era, there was no kobes, lebrons or tmacs he was his era there was NOBODY CLOSE to him

  272. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    All so-called, self-proclaimed Lakers fans, that are not Kobe fans, are huge FAKE fans, and in fact, are not fooling anybody! ...Parallel to the fan who claims allegiance to the Bulls, but not to Michael Jordan! ...Pure BS and huge non credibility issues! ...Now, back to The Main Issue: The “Kobester”, when all is said and done, and history eventually looks back and acknowledges the “Killer Years” he dwarfed LeHype’s absolute best with, and was undeservingly duped by all of these bias and negatively inclined B.S. writers/voters towards him, that actually stole many MVP'S away from him, as the great Larry Bird so eloquently insinuated to! ...READ EM WEEP, NAY SAYERS ...Kobe “The Black Mamba” Bryant will not only be considered the eventual GOAT, but also; THE MVP OF ALL TIME!

  273. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    Corrected & edited for everyone's viewing pleasure:
    ...READ EM & WEEP, NAY SAYERS! Kobe “The Black Mamba” Bryant, will not only be considered the eventual GOAT, but also; THE MVP OF ALL TIME!

  274. WITNESS Says:

    whatever...

    LEBRON is the best player on the NBA as of the moment and its such a pity for those who say that kobe will be considered as the eventual GOAT... kobe is good but not as great as jordan...
    Lebron is the best player in NBA right now but will never be as awesome as "his airness"

    and to all those who are saying the the east is the weaker conference...

    tell that to your poor kobe who lost to the eastern conference champs last year... BOSTON CELTICS...

  275. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    HeeHeeHeeHeeHoHoHoHoHo,
    LeHype bandwagonners just seem so satisfied to relish and bask in all that “manufactured” Jazz(*&^%$#@!).
    Que Sera, Sera! ...Time will definitely tell, since he who laughs last, always Laughs Best!
    ...Kobe: “The One and Only One”!

  276. donnie Says:

    the best thing to do is to trade them up.and see who will make the other team better haha.age is not a factor in determining the best player.it is given that lebron is advance compared to his age.kobe is a better scorer than mj and lebron right now.but mj is the best player who can make his team win.lebron is the better over-all player among the the 3.their strengths are different.jordan did not shoot beyond the 3pt line because when he was born there was no 3pt line back then.but i think kobe is a better defender than lebron.defending is not how you block or steal but how you defend your goal.i really hate kobe but that's the reality.for lebron to be the best, he must improve his defense a little bit more.IMO kobe will not be the best of all time.lebron has a SHOT at it, though it is a longshot for now

  277. donnie Says:

    east are not weaker than the west.as of this moment they have a better record than the west head to head match up

  278. donnie Says:

    right now, i would say lebron uses too much athleticism.it is fun to watch what would happen after 5 more years.that is why mj is still the best.but i would reserve my judgment after that haha

  279. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    It is naive to think that LeHype is the best over-all player, based on the numbers he registers on his stat sheet! ...Simply because, these stats are blown way out of proportion, when you take into account the amount of time LeBron dominates the ball handling, including the engrossing amount of plays that run thru LeBron, which he absorbs each and every single time down court, as the one man gang, on this Cavs team! ...Based on this fact, he should average more points and assists per game! ...Also considering his position as a forward and so-called beast that he is, he should be gobbling up more rebounds than he does! ...Similar to Chris Paul’s dominance of the ball, as he is the league’s leader in assists, while his team (27th out of 30) is near the bottom of registered assists per team! ...Enough Said!

  280. Donnie Says:

    look at the games this season.lebron is not touching(ball hog) the ball as he usually does compared to last season. and he's minutes are down.but your correct.lebron should average more rebounds and blocks.he has(better) athleticism than that of the 6"9 josh smith.and yet he is not averaging 2bpg.but kobe too.must average more assist because he always have the ball in his hands and with the best supporting cast in the league today.

  281. Tyree Says:

    Lebron is a great player...Kob is a great player....but do you think Kobe would have all those rings without Shaq? Arguably one of the greatest big man to play the game. If Lebron was to play with Shaq during Shaq's prime Lebron would have at least 4 rings by now....Does anybody agree on that?

  282. Ellie Says:

    All the players that have been mentioned are truly gifted players. But you can't really compare players of the past with players of today unless you deal with statistics. Lebron didn't even play during the 80s and 90s, so it's irrelevant to say that he's better than Bird, Johnson, Jordan, etc.

    Also, the rules were different then: handchecking was allowed and there was no defensive 3-second call. These legends had to work their butts off to get through the defense in order to score in the paint. They had to go through thousands of double teams, triple teams, and traps. Look at today: it is very easy for both Kobe and Lebron to drive in the paint. Even a simple pick & roll or pop is so easily executed. The defense is simply avoiding the defensive 3-second call, so even the best defensive players like Duncan, Shaq, etc could not even react in time to stop the drive. Instead, they get called for blocking fouls. Back in the 80s - 90s, the players on defense could camp out in the paint for as long as they wanted. A pick & roll would be stopped easily as well.

    I'm not here to argue who's the best and who's better. I'm just here to say that if you want to compare stats, start with the years that the no handchecks and defensive 3-second rule was initiated.

    By the way, you know why Jordan easily scored 20+ points when he came back in the Wizards? It was because of the no handchecks and defensive 3-second rule. Jordan pretty much didn't have to work his butt off to get through the defense so he could score inside as well as outside. If those 2 rules weren't applied, Jordan probably would've scored less.

  283. Bruse Wayne Says:

    Jordan > every other player ever compared to

  284. Cacalier Says:

    Dudes, this must be a top article that is right on point since we now have 284 responses. That said many of you make good point, but lets just consider one thing, LeBron is the best player in the NBA and he has proved it over the last 4 years. That said he has room for improvement. His jump shot is inconsistent, he doesn't consistently move well without the ball, he gets lackadaisical sometimes (probably because he needs a challenge), and he settles too much for jump shots at times.

    Just think of how good he will be as he continues to improve those areas. Kobe is a great player, but for pure ability he comes no where close to LBJ. LBJ is bigger, stronger and faster than Kobe, not to mention he is a better passer and teammate than Kobe will ever be. The comparison isn't to Kobe anymore, but to Magic, Michael Wilt and the Big O.

  285. AreWeSerious Says:

    Shaq never won a ring without a gaurd to hit clutch shots down the stretch first off, (look at Kobe's finals numbers). I said all i can say about Kobe being better than LeJumpshot, just look at MLK day, 3 fingers, better on ball D, clutch shots and passes come crunch time. Im tellin you, Kobe's got the experience, he's tougher, he's a winner. Lebron can't get it done down the stretch. Stop gettin so happy beacause hes quite possibly the best ATHLETE, not BASKETBALL player, ever to enter the league. Bball fans, not just Laker and KB24 fans, know who the best basketball player in the league is, the Black Mamba.

  286. AreWeSerious Says:

    NBA.com get me job, im to nasty

  287. mike Says:

    BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!!
    LEBRON ARE BREAKING THE YOUNGEST TO REACH ALL THESE RECORDS BECAUSE HE ENTER THE LEAUGE 3 YEARS EARLIER THAN MICHAEL JORDAN. KOBE FIRST 3 SEASONS DIDNT GIVE HIM THE MINTUES HE DESERVED THEY DIDNT NEED HIM. THE LAKERS WERE GOOD ENOUGH ALREADY.

    ANY IDIOT THAT THINKS WE GOT BETTER PLAYER NOW THAN THE 90S IS JUST A PURE IDIOT.

    KOBE IS 30
    GARNETT PIERCE ALLEN ARE IN THEIR 30'S
    SHAQ IS FREAKING 37 THIS YEAR!
    JASON KIDD ISNT IN HIS PRIME
    MCGRADY IS WASHED UP
    BEN WALLACE SUCKS!!! COMPARE HIM TO DENNIS RODMAN I DARE YOU!

    THE IDIOT THAT SAID THE LEAGUE IS BETTER BECAUSE THE PLAYERS ARE YOUNGER IS THE DUMBEST KID EVER. SO DOES THAT MEAN HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS AND COLLEGE PLAYERS ARE BETTER CAUSE THEY ARE YOUNGER?

    LEBRON = NO RINGS, NO MVP, NO DEFENSE PLAYER OF THE YEAR.
    STOP COMPARING HIS STATS TO JORDAN. THEY ARE NOT CLOSE. THEY ARE CLOSE BECAUSE OF THIS LITTLE BS SYSTEM THATS CREATED SO OTHER PLAYERS CAN BE COMPARED TO JORDAN. WATCH THE GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WATCH HOW THEY PLAY, WATCH JORDAN IN THE 4TH QUARTER.

    EVEN WITH THIS BS STATS SYSTEM AND PER SYSTEM THEY KEEP COMING UP WITH TO PRAY THERES ANOTHER JORDAN ITS STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH BECAUSE THEIR STATS ARE NOT BETTER THAN JORDAN.

    COMPARE THEIR PLAYOFFS, FINALS STATS TO MICHAEL AND FEEL STUPID

    COMPARE ANYONES PLAYOFF AND FINALS NUMBERS TO JORDAN!!!! DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

    COMPARE KOBES FINALS NUMBERS, PLAYOFF NUMBERS
    TAKE LEBRONS STATS. TAKE HIS FINALS 0-4 STATS.
    HOW DARE YOU COMPARE SOMEONE THAT GOT SWEEP IN THE FINALS AND DID NOT PERFORM WELL TO MICHAEL.

    YOU KOBE, LEBRON FAN ARE JUST A BUNCH OF YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HAS NO BASKETBAL KNOWLEDGE

    72-10

    JUST GIVE IT UP THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER JORDAN, NO MATTER HOW THE MEDIA WANTS TO MAKE IT AND HOW NBA TRY TO PROMOTE IT. NO MATTER HOW MANY NIKE COMMERICAL. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER JORDAN.

    PENNY HARDAWAY, EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WAS THE NEXT JORDAN.. UH
    HAROLD MILLER THEY CALLED HIM BABY JORDAN.. YEAH SURE
    GRANT HILL EVEN WITHOUT INJURY WOULDNT HAVE CAME ANYWHERE CLOSE
    JERRY STACKHOUSE. FAILURE
    VINCE CARTER, FAILURE
    ALLEN IVERSON, FAILURE
    MICHAEL FINELY, FAILURE
    KOBE BRYANT, FAILURE
    LEBRON JAMES, ANOTHER FAILURE WAITING TO HAPPEN.

    TRACY MCGRADY WAS SO GOOD AT ONE POINT, BUT ITS NOT ABOUT JUST HAVING A FEW GREAT SEASON. TRY 10 YEARS AND 3 MORE AFTER RETIRING AND 2 MORE AT ALMOST 40S AND STILL BE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME.

    WHEN KOBE AND LEBRON CAREER END, LET THE NUMBERS SPEAK. LET THE HIGHLIGHT AND GAMES SPEAK.

    TIL THEN, STOP COMPARING.. YOUR SYSTEM WOULDNT BEAT JORDAN.
    GIVE IT UP. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER JORDAN.

  288. mike Says:

    AND DONT YOU FOOLS DARE COMPARE THE 80S BAD BOY PISTONS TO THE PISTONS OF THE 2000'S

    THERE IS NO COMPARISON

    DENNIS RODMAN > BEN WALLACE X 10000000
    ISIAH > BILLIPS X100000
    DUMARS > RIP X 100000
    LAMBEER > WALLACE X 100000
    PRINCE IS NOTTTTTTTTTTT EVEN THAT GOOD OF A PLAYER, HIS ONE BLOCK ON MILLER GIVE HIM SOME HIGH LIGHT IF THAT WAS JORDAN HE WOULDVE GOT DUNKED ON SO BADLY.

  289. AreWeSerious Says:

    Yo mike if we're so young, or if im so young, how is it that I can speak (type) better than you? Answer this question if your knowledge is unmathced. If you gave Kobe Bryant a Scottie Pippen, one of the top 50 players of all time, one of the best defenders of all time (top 5 in steals in NBA history), a Dennis Rodman, also one of the best defenders and rebounders at his position all time, you don't think he would win championships? He also had Ron Harper top 10-20 in steals all time. Not to mention Jordan's defense, which is slightly better than Kobe's. The Bulls championships teams had some of the best defense of all time, if you give that to Kobe and Phil Jackson, they would come away with a dynasty. Jordan's mentality in big games I will admit is second to nobody, maybe the likes of a Bill Russel. But right after them its Kobe. This era has more superstars then Jordan's era,(the Bird's and Magic's were out of their prime) so he stood out more. Jordan was the first player ever to dominate the game at his size. Today's game has its Kobe's, Lebrons, Tmacs, Iversons etc. It was Jordan, and great big men during his era. Kobe is a better ball handler, outside shooter, and free throw shooter than MJ. Jordan was stronger which lead to his unstoppable drives (second to Lebron all time in that category), and in MJs later years he developed his second to none mid-range game. Of course Jordan is the most clutch player of all time which needs no elaborating. Next in that line is Kobe. Perhaps the best ever at getting his own shot no matter how immense the pressure. When its all said and done KB24 wil have his 4-6 rings, 2-3 MVPs and will be known as a top 5 player of all time, and the second best shooting gaurd of all time. As for LeBrick, make a damn jumpshot and learn how to want the ball in your hands down the stretch. I believe your born with that clutch gene, and folks, Lejumper missed out. KOBE is the best player in the NBA and the closest thing we will ever see to Jordan. Lebron is and Oscar Robertson type, stop comparing HIM with Jordan.

    YO MIKE, what do you have to say to that? A 20 year who knows more about the game than you. ANDD, I know more about ur love Michael Jordan than you! Ya see how I used english and didnt call everyone dumb and foolish? You sir, are a shmuck. Feel hurt.

    KB24, the assasin, the black mamba. Its clear who the leagues best is.

  290. AreWeSerious Says:

    YOU CAN'T MESS WITH THAT.. I DARE SOMEONE TO KNOW MORE THAN I DO... ESPN ILL BE WORKIN FOR YOU ONE OF THESE DAYS.

  291. AreWeSerious Says:

    WOAHH MIKE, are you actually implying TMAC was better than KOBE? I sure as hell hope not.

  292. manchester magic Says:

    kobe , get better sooon from your finger, but never bettter than LeBron. HA HA HA HA !

  293. manchester magic Says:

    lbking ruless!!!!!!
    SUPPPPPPPPP

  294. KINGCRAB Says:

    simple LBJ plays in the east... kobe plays for the west. so i guess they should cut lebron's stats in half lol. lebron is good but not at the level of kobe yet... maybe if he fixes his free throws and jumpers then we can talk about who is better.

  295. josh Says:

    He hit a buzzer beater he is the king

  296. BlackMambo Says:

    If pippen and rodman were kobe's team mates, they would've clashed because kobe's an airhead and has no leadership like MJ. he wouldnt get any respect from those two. maybe rodman wouldve busted his nose at training camp... lol

  297. BlackMambo Says:

    mj comparisons are pointless. the bulls were built around MJ. pippen came in with POTENTIAL to be a great player (maybe same skill set as marion's), but that was harnessed playing alongside MJ (imagine the scrimmages where pippen has to defend MJ, who would not be a great defensive player?). rodman have the rebounding prowess he has when he was from the pistons, but that wasnt used well when he was in san antonio. MJ earned rodman's respect by being a great leader that he was. kerr, longley, kukoc, harper and even guys like wennington and buechler played their roles on a team that was build around MJ. they did their role well and they became better. all of these are because of MJ's leadership. that is not seen on statsheets. but that makes TEAMS win CHAMPIONSHIPS.

    kobe and lebron only rely on what they can do alone... but not on willing a team to go for one goal.

    crap.

  298. AreWeSerious Says:

    PIPPEN TOOK THE BULLS TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS WHEN JORDAN "RETIRED" sooooooo im the smartest here, first off..... Take Kobe off the Lakers and where are they going? not to the conference finals. Kobe haters still think Kobe is a selfish ball-hog, hes far fom it, ur the airhead shmuck. Second, MJ didn't make a player become an all time great defender, (Scottie Pippen). Why aren't Kobe's teamates 10 in steals all time, they have to gaurd him in practice? Thats a weak argument step it up. Also, Rodman won championships before Jordan, so he didn't exactly need MJ's approval. Once aagin terrible argument. Let me guess, Rodman is one of the best defenders and rebounders of all time becaus he played for his airness?

    Yo BlackMambo your knowledge is weak, you make no sense. Dont be a bias Kobe hater. MJ is the best ever but KB24 is right their. Kobes on another level than the rest of the NBA because its all about clutch. Something LBJ knows nothing about.

  299. BlackMambo Says:

    yo m'man. i ain't no kobe hater. i just appreciate basketball and just get so sick of listening to MJ comparisons and other nonsense.

    the argument is not weak, its just that the person who read it refuses to understand.

    pippen, already developed his skills through years of experience, is then a hall-of-famer to be when he took the bulls to the conference finals. im not taking away pip's developmet, but please to also think how the team and his leader may have helped. an example of excellence set by a great leader would definitely boost a teammates' confidence and development... right?

    as for rodman... read again m'man. its not approval we're talking about here, and i never said rodman got his rebounding skills by playing w/ MJ. read again, please. it's about the respect a leader gets. rodman grew as a piston, didnt work well with the spurs, and yet he did his job well with the bulls. it takes two ways man. if rodman wouldnt have any respect for the team's principle set by the leader, would he even cooperate? think about it.

    again, im not a kobe hater. but as youve said, if kobe is now far from being the airhead that he was... then i guess we still have to see that right? i would even cheer for your team so that you prove your point.

    no more MJ comparisons.

  300. BlackMambo Says:

    "Take Kobe off the Lakers and where are they going? not to the conference finals."

    -- what if we replace kobe with d-wade or paul pierce? where would the team be?

  301. BlackMambo Says:

    "PIPPEN TOOK THE BULLS TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS WHEN JORDAN “RETIRED” sooooooo im the smartest here, first off..."

    - Bulls 93-94: Lost NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals (4-3) versus New York Knickerbockers --- http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1994.html

  302. AreWeSerious Says:

    WHAT R U TALKING ABOUT? NOBODY GOT TO REPLACE JORDAN WHEN HE PLAYED BASEBALL FOR A YEAR, WHY WOULD WADE OR PIERCE BE ON THE LAKERS? I'M SAYING THIS RIGHT NOW. IF KOBE BEAN BRYANT WAS ON THE BULLS CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS INSTEAD OF MJ, HED HAVE VERY ACCOLADES. IF ANYONE SAW THE GAME AGAINST THE BOBCATS TONIGHT YOUD SEE IT. HE WAS CLUTCH AS HELL, FOULED OUT WITH THE LEAD WITH 50 SECONDS LEFT, THEN LOST BECAUSE LA HAS NO PLAYMAKERS. I WILL GIVE YOU THIS, BESIDES BILL RUSSEL, JORDAN IS THE BEST LEADER OF ALL TIME AND I SEE YOUR POINT. ITS ALMOST LIKE HIS TEAMATES (AND THE LAEGUE) WERE IN AW OF HIM, HE WAS THE FIRST TO BE UNSTOPPABLE THE WAY HE DID IT. AND WITH ALL THAT, THE "LEADER" ROLE BECOMES EASIER. IM NOT SURE HOW TO EXPLAIN IT, BUT THE LEAGUE TODAY IS NOT LIKE THAT. IF KOBE GETS MAD AT A TEAMATE AND YELLS AT HIM, THAT WOULD GET THEM DOWN. IF JORDAN YELLS AT A TEAMATE THEY WOULD SEE IT AS MOTIVATION. ILL GIVE YOU THE LEADER THING. BUT KOBE IS SO CLOSE TO MJ ITS SCARY. HE GETS IT DONE IN THE CLUTCH AND THOUGH HIS TEAM HAS THE 2 TOWERS, THEY LACK ANOTHER PLAYMAKING GAURD WHEN KOBES ON THE BENCH, (OR IN LAST NIGHTS GAMES CASE FOULED OUT). MY BAD FOR SAYIN WEAK ARGUMENT BUT EVERYTHING ELSE IM SAYIN IS TRUE. JUST WATCH THE GUY PLAY CONSISTANTLY, ULL SEE IT.

  303. AreWeSerious Says:

    *SIMILAR ACCOLADES

  304. MR JUAN_YOUR WARLOC Says:

    Yo Mike,
    Who the hell is Harold Miller?
    The Legend of The so-called Baby Jordan, was none other than The Infamous Harold Miner!
    Just a little tit for tat, to pump up your Encyclopedia of "Who's Who" of The Legendary Hops, in NBA Hoops History!

  305. BlackMambo Says:

    Point accepted. As i was saying, im just tired of all these MJ comparisons they give to lebron and kobe. all three of them possess mad skills that can will to take over games when needed (e.g. kobe in phili finals & olympics against spain and lebron in detroit conf finals). however, MJ surpasses them all by giving boost on his teammates development and confidence. imagine, steve kerr asked for the ball for the game winner during the finals with utah... that's confidence.

    as for the league today, leadership still plays a big part on to winning. nash inspired the suns (and even the league for the matter) to be an offensive force, KG brought out toughness in boston, duncan gave the spurs a winning tradition (tp flourished under this), howard makes his team hustle out every night, and paul just made his team believe they can win.

    lebron and kobe may have done this to their team, but i guess this belief only comes from the fact that they can "CARRY" their team. KG did that before in Minnesota, but he just got tired and gave up after.

    sure, the lakers last year toughed it out against boston. but the team just gave up on the last game. PLEASE SEE ALSO THE SERIES AGAINST THE SUNS when kobe stopped being a leader and they lost to the suns though they lead 3-1. im no kobe hater, in fact im a kobe fan. but if he does things like these, these would just impede his destiny for greatness and would just make his skills worthless. right now, though he has the right pieces in LA (even better than what MJ had, and i believe kobe can't lead the bulls with his attitude), unless kobe can lead them all the way, i still doubt theyd win.

    kobe is still in his prime, and can still prove me wrong.

    im just waiting.

  306. AreWeSerious Says:

    you got good knowledge BLACKMAMBO, I will admit, and Im the biggest Kobe fan you'll find, that his trust in teamates hasnt been great in the past, and he still may go about it the wrong way, but he wants to win. Thats where its coming from. Games like last night against the Bobcats, Kobe fouled out up by 3, and the Lakers D gave up a 3, when all they had to do was gaurd the lines. On the bench it looked like he lashed out at Odom for steppin back a foot or 2 and not gaurding Boris Diaw. Who wouldnt be pissed? I would of at least stepped in his grill, you can't make those mistakes. Kobe made some big "trust" passes down the stretch to Fisher and Sasha, he believes in his teamates, though sometimes it seems like his teamates dont believe that. Kobe has the right pieces, I wouldnt say better than Jordan. I would rather have another playmaker/can get his own shot (Pippen), than 2 big men with Kobe. I honestly feel that KB24 and Phil are gonna do this thing, and all this "Kobe can't get it done without Shaq" BS can stop. (CAN I SAY SHAQ NEED A CLUTCH GAURD TO HIT CLUTCH SHOTS AND NEVER CHALLENGED JORDAN WHEN HE WAS ON THE MAGIC)

    MJ had a mystique about him, obviously, and was the best leader off all time, alongside Bill Russel. If Kobe has any flaws in his game, it would be leadership. But I must tell you he has vastly improved it, and has the pieces to hoist another title as well as his first finals MVP.

  307. AreWeSerious Says:

    Yea I remeber that Suns series, He DID stop leading that team, but the game winner he hit in that series (on my birthday) seemed to good to be true. THAT TEAM WAS HORRIFIC. SMUSH, KWAME, WALTON, ODOM! That, you can use as an excuse, to an extent. But I know, it gets me pissed to see Kobe do that.

  308. AreWeSerious Says:

    Who's your favorite player/team?

  309. AreWeSerious Says:

    these days

  310. BlackMambo Says:

    Right now im just rooting for a hell of a conference finals series between cleveland and boston. though i'd like to see orlando and detroit in the mix, i'd still go for the cavs pushing against boston.

    as for the west, id like the suns and spurs go at it (who's the best oldies/veteran team, haha) while lakers face the hornets (and hopefully the hornets would be back in their fighting form at that time).

    a showdown between kobe and lebron in the finals would be a hell of a series, since both of them has this burden on being who's the next great thing after MJ. But i wouldnt mind a boston-san antonio finals either. i'd see two great proud teams going against each other. pure team play, pure excellence form tim and KG. a battle of which is the best BIG 3 in the league.

    i just appreciate basketball as much as anyone does.

  311. AreWeSerious Says:

    If Lebron was ever to beat Kobe in the finals I don't no what id do, which I can't see happening. Im going to predict the rivalry. Lakers against Celtics in the finals. A little revenge for a hungry Lakers team. I can't say enough how much Bynum and Ariza change things, that would make for a hell of a finals. Though Kobe V Lebron would be amazing, imagine a game 7 coming down to the last possesion. Of course Kobe nailing the game winner with a Jordan-esque like fist pump.

  312. the king Says:

    replying to comment 22....when lebron dunks on shaq? look at kg or duncan theyre both in their primes when they got dunked on by bron.. go ask them how they felt. and as for kobe look at the stats people kobe started winning games after gasol came to the lakers.brons been doing it since he came into the leauge he took a team like that to the finals single handedly. he made the trio of the celtics piss in their pants in game seven. what did kobe do? he probally kissed shaqs feet when he brang him the title.kobe is nothing with out a big man.how bout we gie bron dwight howard and we will see if they have enough fingers to put all the rings on by the time they both retire. kobe elite ? nope chris pauls elite. lebrons elite. wades elite. kobes santa claus and santa needs all his elves. lebron doesnt need nobody he puts it down by himself . lebron MVP

  313. ricardo Says:

    lm from the philippines and i love basketball. in my life, i never saw another player as great as MJ, i only felt and realized that someone is better than MJ even without any rings.. ----ITS LBJ23/ LEBRON JAMES THE KING OF BASKETBALL!!

  314. jie Says:

    This is the Race to MVP.

    Most(Played/Wins) x Value(Pts + Reb + As + Blk + Stl - TO - Missed FT -Missed FG) = Player

    B4 : RNK : M W x V = PLAYER

    01 : 01 : 38 W x 30.1 = 1143.8 LeBron James , CLE
    02 : 02 : 38 W x 25.2 = 957.6 Kobe Bryant , LAL
    03 : 03 : 34 W x 27.2 = 924.8 Dwight Howard , ORL
    06 : 04 : 37 W x 23.2 = 858.4 Pau Gasol , LAL
    04 : 05 : 38 W x 21.9 = 832.2 Kevin Garnett , BOS
    05 : 06 : 28 W x 29.4 = 823.2 Chris Paul , NOH
    07 : 07 : 33 W x 25.4 = 838.2 Tim Duncan , SAS
    08 : 08 : 41 W x 18.6 = 762.6 Paul Pierce , BOS
    09 : 09 : 41 W x 18.4 = 754.4 Rajon Rondo , BOS
    11 : 10 : 26 W x 27.2 = 707.2 Dwyane Wade , MIA
    13 : 11 : 41 W x 16.8 = 688.8 Ray Allen , BOS
    10 : 12 : 37 W x 18.6 = 688.2 Andrew Bynum , LAL
    12 : 13 : 36 W x 19.0 = 684.0 Rashard Lewis , ORL
    14 : 14 : 27 W x 25.0 = 675.0 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL
    15 : 16 : 32 W x 20.3 = 649.6 Nene Hilario , DEN
    16 : 17 : 33 W x 19.6 = 646.8 Chauncy Billups , DEN
    17 : 15 : 28 W x 22.8 = 638.4 Yao Ming , HOU
    18 : 18 : 36 W x 16.6 = 597.6 Hedo Turkoglu , ORL
    20 : 19 : 26 W x 22.8 = 592.8 Amare Stoudamire , PHX
    21 : 20 : 27 W x 21.9 = 591.3 Brandon Roy , POR
    19 : 21 : 32 W x 18.4 = 588.8 Jameer Nelson , ORL
    22 : 22 : 38 W x 14.9 = 566.2 Mo Williams , CLE
    24 : 23 : 28 W x 19.1 = 534.8 Jason Kidd , DAL

    NO GAME, LOST GAME -> NO POINT

    NO SHOWTIME, NO HISTORY, NO FAVORITISM, NO GUESSING, NO STORIES

    JUST MOST WINS X NUMBERS

    My TOP Players last year from that computation were KB24 & CP3