Comments on: The (APBRmetric) Top 593 Players of 2012

By: Ипат

Ипат — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:57:04 +0000

Прошу извинений за высказывание не по теме, но уж очень мне ваш шаблон для блога понравился. Где можно найти такой? =)

By: Natural Pet Grooming Products

Natural Pet Grooming Products — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 03:41:11 +0000

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By: the anticrust

the anticrust — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:27:10 +0000

Wow, Sun Yue was ranked #184 even though Phil Jackson only allowed him to get off the bench for....I believe 29 minutes during his one season, I was rooting for him to hang in there and make it, look, he gave Sasha and Farmar 3-4 years to show they weren't reliable. He had so many things going against him, and no one cutting him any slack. Language (specifically in learning the offense and the NBA), NBA lifestyle, US lifestyle, Mononucleosis to start the year, I think a minor injury during the year (Phil was never going to use him anyway)....I think it's a shame that the Lakers did not take this player more seriously, with his variety of unconventional skills, being a 6'9" point guard, they said his jumper was as good as Sasha's practice time (not game time) jumper, his ability to chase down and block shots,......the last 6'9" point guard the Lakers had was pretty good. And he got more than 29 minutes in his first game, let alone his first season. I know this chart is "out there"....but there are some accuracies.....I like Lamar Odom at #30...he is a top player in the league. He could be a great player if he could just stay focused.

By: huevonkiller

huevonkiller — Wed, 03 Aug 2011 13:24:12 +0000

Bob M, try out the different versions of SPM out there, they are interesting.

I like APM for measuring defensive impact as well.

By: Bob M.

Bob M. — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:07:31 +0000

I agree that Hill should be closer to 100-120th in terms of ranking the best players. Certainly, sabrmetrics will never be perfect..except it's extremely accurate in baseball.

By: WillC

WillC — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:50:57 +0000

Grant Hill 214th? That can't be right.

By: Bob M.

Bob M. — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:43:36 +0000

#28-I think you are right that +/- has to be considered as well. Going to PER, it does seem like PER does attribute a little bit to usage compared to off. win shares. For another Pacer example, Reggie Miller generally had a PER around 20-22 at the peak of his career in the 90s but at his best he was top 5 in off. win shares. Honestly, even though I really liked Reggie, I think he was more the caliber of what his PER suggested since he was never a LeBron/Jordan type that had usage rates in the 30s that could run the point, play multiple positions, grab offensive boards, and overall carry a team on his back..except for a few memorable playoff games like 8 pts in 8 seconds vs. the Knicks in 1995. The late 90s Pacers were built more like the 03-04 Pistons team that had a role for everyone in the starting lineup vs 2010-11 Heat or 91-92 Bulls team that relied on 3 guys to carry lesser players on their shoulders. For evaluating individual defense, you'd have to combine looking at Def. Win Shares with +/- because its hard to precisely determine how much of a win a guy like Tim Duncan contributed vs. Bruce Bowen in the Spurs defensive heyday. Allin all, its hard to 100% go to the bank and earn interest on stats except for baseball. I'll take a player's WAR rating - wins above replacement - and earn a good return on that one in a bad economy(well ok maybe that's taking it too far haha). I certainly favor Def. Win Shares in basketball over Off. Win Shares since as you alluded to it seems off win shares favor big men who grab off rebounds and guys who go 3 for 5 on tip ins like Jeff Foster vs. Jermaine O'Neal...or even Tyson Chandler who I think is a more valuable defensive player than offensive.

By: huevonkiller

huevonkiller — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:13:47 +0000

#24, #25 You seem like a very reasonable person overall, thank you for contributing to this discussion. I think some of the things you said are very interesting. In general I think it is best to use a wide assortment of metrics to rank players, because some stats can be goofy at times. If you want to use PER don't forget to adjust for usage rate (especially if you're comparing players on the same tier). For instance Jordan has 27 PER some seasons, but on a massive usage rate. He has higher peaks than Kobe but not all of Jordan's "27 PER" playoff seasons are superior to Kobe's "25-27 PER" playoff seasons (2001 and 2009). That's just one example. I like basketball on paper SPM because it incorporates usage, defense, offensive/defensive rating, minutes per game, +/- fundamentals. #26 I agree that Jermaine is a better offensive player, there is definitely no end-all stat. Some stats weigh the usage-efficiency tradeoff differently, in this case OWS penalizes Jermaine heavily for his 100 offensive rating. My ideas would be to use Neil's ranking system, but adjusting for total minutes, era (this is particularly difficult), defenses faced as well (RAPM addresses that to a degree, perhaps we need more metrics with that feature). Certainly you're correct, comparing All-Stars to role players is inappropriate at times.

By: Anon

Anon — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 13:52:33 +0000

@22 - Finishing 1st and 7th in WS/WS48 ain't a bad playoffs - perhaps for Bron's standards. You're just dissatisfied with the team result. If he finished 5th and 10th in a Heat title you'd (irrationally) call it a good playoffs :) This is a spot-on list. Great work.

By: Bob M.

Bob M. — Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:00:22 +0000

I'm a Pacers fan, and the advanced stats for the year would definitely work against offensive win shares. Jeff Foster had more off. win shares than #3 vote getter in MVP race in O'neal and Artest.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2004.html