Comments on: Which Games Are the Most Important In a 7-Game Series? http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327 NBA & ABA Basketball Statistics & History Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:56:04 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6 By: paul http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-49592 Mon, 23 May 2011 22:39:33 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-49592 this is great!

Any compiled data on how close these mathematical/theoretical calculations come to predicting the actual results over time?

The human factor (motivated/de-motivated by the series status) might account for some variations from these predicted results.

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By: Hank http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18536 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:23:47 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18536 So who has the best game 7 stats in playoff history? (All rounds.)

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By: Hk http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18355 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 03:36:31 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18355 What about the Magic Series this year? If they had split one of those "less" important games 1 or 2, that changes everything. Dwight Howard could have performed at the exact same level and taken his team to a 3-3 tie heading back to Orlando. Slight favorites instead of fishing.

I'm only discussing individual legacy, it shouldn't be taken into consideration. That's a team stat based on favorable situations outside of skill.

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By: UB http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18350 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:35:10 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18350 It's not an issue of understanding the media's perception, it's trying to better clarify it. Each playoff victory has the same value. But each playoff game does not contribute the same amount to the relative likelihood of a series victory. When a team is down 0-2 and returns home, a loss in that game is much more damaging than if the series is tied 2-2.

This isn't saying the players should just -give up- when down 0-3 or 1-3. It's saying that when a team is down 0-3 and wins game 4, they're still not very likely to win the series. Because of that, a high-level performance when a team is down 0-3 is not as 'important' as a high-level performance when a team is down 2-3.

A team can win the 1st game and still lose the series, right? But a team that wins a game 7 must win the series, correct? So game 7 is more 'crucial' than game 1 - can we accept this premise? What the data above suggests is that, in addition to that concept, there's a scale for ALL the other games which affects the likelihood of a team's winning a series.

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By: Hk http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18339 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:51:51 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18339 The argument that we need to try to "understand" the media's flawed perception, and overreaction, of players is ridiculous. We need to promote logic not contort our views to support some hack writer or sports analyst.

Each playoff game is equally important, I'm with Mike G on this one.

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18305 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:43:09 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18305 If a guy is 1-5 from the FT line, he's shooting .200 .
Another guy is 4-5, shooting .800

If the .200 shooter makes one, his FT% rises to .333 : an increase of .133
The .800 shooter making one rises to .833 -- up .033

Was the first one 4 times as important or crucial?

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18301 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 13:41:13 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18301 "If we simultaneously "play" all 7 games and then randomly sample the game-by-game results (without replacement) until we have a series result does the importance of each game change because of the order that they were sampled?"

Good question. The closest we have in the real world, perhaps, is the series that stands 3-0 . Each game thereafter either prolongs the series or ends it.

In either scenario (relying on simulation for Themojojedi's proposal) I cannot fathom an argument that any remaining game has more importance than another. Nor does it make a bit of sense that a team down 3-2 has no chance, simply because they were once down 3-0.

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By: themojojedi http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18298 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:53:02 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18298 I love this stuff! Haven't really thought it through yet so I'm just spitballing some ideas about equal vs unequal importance of games:

Is this an argument between marginally equal importance of games versus conditionally unequal importance (given results of preceding games)?

Are there scenarios where these two concepts are both true and scenarios where they aren't?

If two teams are exactly evenly matched is home-court advantage the only driver of the unequal importance of games?

If we get to a Game 7 tied 3-3 are each of the first 6 games now viewed as equally important regardless of whether the series started 3-0 or whether it was 2-2 after 4? Is Game 7 now the only game that is important?

If Stern ruled that the two teams had to play all 7 games regardless of when the series was won, would we agree that all games after one team wins 4 are meaningless/without importance?

Does the fact that games are played in sequence rather than simultaneously create unequal importance due to the potential to eliminate the existence of (important) games later in the series?

If in Stern-world II all 7 Games were "played" simultaneously rather than played sequentially would we all agree that each game's outcome is equally important?

If we simultaneously "play" all 7 games and then randomly sample the game-by-game results (without replacement) until we have a series result does the importance of each game change because of the order that they were sampled?

If we integrate/simulate over all possible samples/drawings are the games now viewed as equally important again?

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By: Mike G http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18294 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:10:17 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18294 When you're down 12-1, you need 12 runs to win the game; each of those is equally valuable.
If you started the rally, that led to the miracle comeback, then yes, you started something great. Everyone behind you, avoiding the final out, perpetuates it.

Then in retrospect, your homer that made it 12-2 must have rattled the opposition, got their pitcher out of the game, begun a series of unlikely events leading to a 12-run 9th inning. Maybe the winning run is just a bases-loaded walk, with no particular hero.

Basketball uses the same math.

If you're down 20 at the half, your coach might say you just need to get it to single digits going into the 4th. Then you're 'back in the game'. Overcoming great odds for the next 24 minutes, every play might be 'clutch'.

If anyone actually involved with the game should believe this --

"... 1-3 games ... aren't really "crucial" at all -- you're basically going to lose the series anyway, no matter whether you win or lose the game..."

-- then we'd have been deprived of some mighty dramatic sequences in the history of the sport.

The year after Boston's comeback from 1-3 vs Philly (1981), the same thing almost happened next year: Sixers up 3-1, they dropped the next 2. In game 7, at Philly, many fans assumed they'd repeat the previous year's collapse; there were actually empty seats, and this was a game with about 4 Hall of Famers per team.

Assumptions are crazy. One game is one game.

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By: Neil Paine http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327&cpage=1#comment-18278 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:04:16 +0000 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6327#comment-18278 So Mike, do you believe a home run hit when you're trailing 12-1 is as "clutch" as a walk-off HR in the bottom of the 9th in a 1-1 game?

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